Absolute Annihilation 2.11

Cabbage · Post by **Cabbage** » 14 Aug 2006, 11:52

+1

I don't think that really has any relevence at all, apart from the factual informtiaon about OTA perhaps, everything he said was pretty much wrong..

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 14 Aug 2006, 12:49

I agree with the auto repair stuff. It's so annoying, no one repairs the stuff if they can just autoheal it, it removes alot of tatics... if autorepair would be taken away from most units then it would force you to acully retreat with units(*gasp*) OR have a SUPPORT unit/builder with the army to make em more effective so their not simple throw into the action and watch them explode units.

The commander... err.. well... Yea i agree with the blast part. If it explodes, make it a real nuclear explosion. Not sure about health and how to balance Nanos thou... I suggest you watch some of Randy's tourny games, Stanley. He puts the coms nano lathor to good use! And Health... well... it could force pepole to ONLY use him as a base builder. he alredy dies of pretty simple defences.

ginekolog · Post by **ginekolog** » 14 Aug 2006, 14:56

com is perfect now, do not touch it.

Wolf-In-Exile · Post by **Wolf-In-Exile** » 14 Aug 2006, 15:43

The comm should have a little more resistance to lvl 1 unit weapons imo, he dies much too easily.

I disagree about removing autoheal. It removes a layer of micro-ing and speeds up gameplay.

After all you can still assign const. units to repair your units.

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 14 Aug 2006, 15:58

Wolf-In-Exile wrote:The comm should have a little more resistance to lvl 1 unit weapons imo, he dies much too easily.

I disagree about removing autoheal. It removes a layer of micro-ing and speeds up gameplay.

After all you can still assign const. units to repair your units.

Agreed. The autoheal for most non "combat autorepair" units is slow enough that it rarely has any actual effect on battle outcomes - it just saves the player the tedium of repairing units.

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 14 Aug 2006, 16:02

FireCrack wrote:Indeed, it's a different mod, and is quite well balanced at the moment.

Besides that his opinion is just plain wrong. The Comm has, afaik, less health than his OTA counterpart, plus has the whole "extra damage vs. turrets" thing.

The only OTAish features I miss in AA is (a) OTA L2 is _less efficient and more specialised_ than L1 (OTA can is slower, OTA Zeus is shorter ranged, OTA popups are weaker than their L1 versions), and plus there was less unit-specific targetting and damage. Really, I suppose my ideal game would be XTA with AA units added in. But I realise I'm a freak and that's probably not a popular viewpoint.

LathanStanley · Post by **LathanStanley** » 14 Aug 2006, 16:16

my list of current game issues:

Pro's

#1 MASS airlifting/dropping !!! LEET!!

#2 ALL the spring engine graphic and gameplay improvements...

#3 the droves of fun mines!.. this I like!

#4 heavier laser batteries for defense... FUN! (too much range though.. get used as offense too easy)

#5 moho geothermal!... love em

#6 screamer anti-air missles! big shot, big hit, drops a plane like life, slow refire.. works for me!

Con's

#1 Auto-repair on everything, everywhere. ONLY THE COMMANDER should do this, ever.

#2 The EXTEREMETIES units get to.. I mean c'mon, a level 3 k-bot, capable of annihiliting an ENTIRE BASE... BY ITSELF!! that can scale near vertical walls?? who cares what it costs, its unstoppable..

#3 The ... ZERO reclaim time on any kinda fortification wall, and the inability to simply blow them up with artillery...

#4 The uberduper omfg!roxorz leet rage of ALL construction units... namely nano-towers... They were limited on range in the old game to somewhat limit the "stackable" builders on a single factory... and planes, were ALOT more expensive and built, ALOT slower....

#5 Commander + any rubble anywhere after death, rubble = bad.

#6 effectiveness of some amphibious units.... they are a wildcard to catch people by suprise, not a main assault.

#7 Artillery? on a plane? gimmie a break... YES! SABOT ROUNDS ARE ARTILERY!

#8 Too easy to porc, towers have TOOO much range, the damage to cost ratio is good... but they simply start doing damage TOOO far out overall..

#9 ORCONES!.... what happened to CORE being the being the gun/atrillery holder on a tracked tank, and ARM being a big lazer holder on a faster mech? I mean, I KNOW kroggy is damn good... DAMN good... but core ALWAYS had the bigger tanks/units... ARM was just more powerful in the hands of a better player.... but to keep the same simillar units for the most part, and give the ARM the biggest unit in the game? sigh... flashtank fanboys...

#10 moveable bertha... on land, and sea.. if a stationary one isn't bad enough, lets make one CHEAPER THAT MOVES!!!

#11 the abundance of "easy to get metal" and "tightly crammed energy" from JUST BUILDINGS!! -resource factories(+150 metal), metal generators (+1 metal regardless?), cloakable metak makers... twice the metal of a moho metal maker, smaller size, and it cloaks for only about 2.2x the cost?!!?! why would anyone EVER make good ole regular mohos? alien bla bla bla uber nuke reactor +5000 energy etc.. what happened to solar plant, farms with scattered nuke reactors... ?? made you HAVE TO GET BIGGER TO GET MORE POWER!, and FIND MORE METAL TO GET MORE METAL! not to mention that the WHOLE REASON WARS ARE FOUGHT IS OVER RESOURCES! and well... if resources are free... then, the war is pointless...

#12 the fact that #11 buildings are SOOOO tough, they can all survive multiple nukes... a nuke USED to be bad news if it hit a nuke reactor... now its laughable...

#13 sumo's as offense... lol, thats funny... but... you made them VERY FRAKKAN! FAST!... its well.. a bit obsurd... sumos had their place as defense around the heart of the base... where there weren't many "fast" arm tanks that could penetrate the core defensive line, and the sumos could guard the factories without clogging them up... and make quick work of the few mortys and few bulldogs that did break through and outrun the slow ass goliaths.....

#14 "alien tech radar"... what happened to the strategy of forward radar posts? defending your forward posts? etc? why bother, build 2 or three of these, and you have radar for life...

#15 alien tech anything...

#16 tired of listing bad things... I'll name more later....

LathanStanley · Post by **LathanStanley** » 14 Aug 2006, 16:30

just kinda an idea...

a unit for AA... a jumbo air transport, still no guns and no defense, not uber fast, not uber anything... but you give it the ability to load and unload multiple units, at the same time... say like 6 of em or something....
I have no idea the immenseness of scripting that would go into something like that... but the ability for a transport to fly in, and airdrop say, 6 to 10 tanks in the back of a battle, all by itself, would be fun to see

its been said, I know I know...

but I say we do it

Dragon45 · Post by **Dragon45** » 14 Aug 2006, 16:43

I disagree with pretty much every single one of Lathan's Cons. Yes, I am serious. The counterpoints are explained somewhrere in this gigantinormous thread.

Lathan, such tihngs are *very* well balanced; the key is learning how to use them and counter them in turn.

Pop on Spring sometime when I'm on and my friends and I will show ya

Machiosabre · Post by **Machiosabre** » 14 Aug 2006, 16:54

yeah you sound like you just played one game and looked at some units and didn't like their descriptions, it all works very well.
That list is probably the least informed view of AA I've ever seen.

Cabbage · Post by **Cabbage** » 14 Aug 2006, 17:16

Rofl do you even play?

cloakable metak makers... twice the metal of a moho metal maker, smaller size, and it cloaks for only about 2.2x the cost?!!?! why would anyone EVER make good ole regular mohos?

Errr what building is this exactly? perhaps i just have poor vision and just missed the build pic...

buildings are SOOOO tough, they can all survive multiple nukes... a nuke USED to be bad news if it hit a nuke reactor... now its laughable...

Errr The Arm prude can Survive ONE nuke, every other resorce building would die to a single nuke blast you fool..

Too easy to porc, towers have TOOO much range, the damage to cost ratio is good... but they simply start doing damage TOOO far out overall..

The only long range defences are the plasma cannons and anni, try playing xta then come and say that again eh?

Artillery? on a plane? gimmie a break... YES! SABOT ROUNDS ARE ARTILERY!

......... Ohhh yes! of course! i forgot this is TA and commanders don't carry back packs full of antimatter or instantly travel to other planets through dimensional gates! thatnks for clearing that up. Funny how blades arn't at all similar to rapiers...

effectiveness of some amphibious units.... they are a wildcard to catch people by suprise, not a main assault.

Yeah, those shivas are pretty crap arn't they? And the arm one is even worse! You TOOL!

#5 Commander + any rubble anywhere after death, rubble = bad.

I disagree

The uberduper omfg!roxorz leet rage of ALL construction units... namely nano-towers... They were limited on range in the old game to somewhat limit the "stackable" builders on a single factory... and planes, were ALOT more expensive and built, ALOT slower....

So ALL cons have too bigger range, namely nanotowers? Thats a bit strange the ONLY con units that have a big range are nanotowers..

The ... ZERO reclaim time on any kinda fortification wall, and the inability to simply blow them up with artillery...

Engine issue afaik

The EXTEREMETIES units get to.. I mean c'mon, a level 3 k-bot, capable of annihiliting an ENTIRE BASE... BY ITSELF!! that can scale near vertical walls?? who cares what it costs, its unstoppable..

Errrm which unit is this then? the only all terrian L3 units are the vanguard and kargenth. 3 bulldogs = dead kargie, and vanguards die even faster....

1 Auto-repair on everything, everywhere. ONLY THE COMMANDER should do this, ever.

Apart from the bulldog, maverick, sumo and golly, which have COMBAT autorepair, nothing else heals in combat. If you actualy played you'd see that everything needs to be left idle for a while before they start repairing (that includes not being on patrol)

There is so much i could say to prove you wrong on every single point, but i've already wsted alot of time on this post

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 14 Aug 2006, 17:34

The bit about "who cares what L3 units cost" was the funniest.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 14 Aug 2006, 17:39

LathanStanley wrote:#4 The uberduper omfg!roxorz leet rage of ALL construction units... namely nano-towers... They were limited on range in the old game to somewhat limit the "stackable" builders on a single factory... and planes, were ALOT more expensive and built, ALOT slower....

And most were totally useless. Your point being?

#8 Too easy to porc, towers have TOOO much range, the damage to cost ratio is good... but they simply start doing damage TOOO far out overall..

Watch a game between experts sometimes. They don't porc at all because porcing is instant death on anything but Speedmetal or Green Fields.

For example, the Hellspawn VS Jazz game from http://taspring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewt ... 1&start=40 - excellent demonstration of how AA plays.

#9 ORCONES!.... what happened to CORE being the being the gun/atrillery holder on a tracked tank, and ARM being a big lazer holder on a faster mech? I mean, I KNOW kroggy is damn good... DAMN good... but core ALWAYS had the bigger tanks/units... ARM was just more powerful in the hands of a better player.... but to keep the same simillar units for the most part, and give the ARM the biggest unit in the game? sigh... flashtank fanboys...

You have no clue what you're talking about, you really don't. Maybe if you played the game or something...

The Orcone is cheaper than a Krogoth, has less health, is slightly faster, and has much smaller guns. Core also has the Goliath and Sumo, while the Arm has the Sharpshooter and the Gremlin.

#10 moveable bertha... on land, and sea.. if a stationary one isn't bad enough, lets make one CHEAPER THAT MOVES!!!

Actually, the mobile Berthas are more expensive, move very slowly, and have next to zero health.

#11 the abundance of "easy to get metal" and "tightly crammed energy" from JUST BUILDINGS!! -resource factories(+150 metal), metal generators (+1 metal regardless?)

Uhm. Are you sure you're talking about the right mod? I've not noticed any buildings that give +150 metal. Metal Generators are straight-up metal, but they're expensive and easy to destroy. As for the Adv Fusion... If you didn't notice, it has a massive blast and cost.

#13 sumo's as offense... lol, thats funny... but... you made them VERY FRAKKAN! FAST!... its well.. a bit obsurd... sumos had their place as defense around the heart of the base... where there weren't many "fast" arm tanks that could penetrate the core defensive line, and the sumos could guard the factories without clogging them up... and make quick work of the few mortys and few bulldogs that did break through and outrun the slow ass goliaths.....

Core Sumo: Max Speed 0.55

Arm Fatboy: Max Speed 0.85

Arm Zeus: Max Speed 1.38

Yes, Sumos are blazingly fast. Like greased lightning. One day here, the next day a few inches away. Can barely see the buggers they move so fast...

#14 "alien tech radar"... what happened to the strategy of forward radar posts? defending your forward posts? etc? why bother, build 2 or three of these, and you have radar for life...

In case you haven't noticed, hills block radar. And there's a tiny thing called a "Juno" - uninterceptable, hefty blast radius, destroys any radar and jammers instantly. Oops.

In short: play the game before making suggestions.

Cabbage · Post by **Cabbage** » 14 Aug 2006, 17:41

you mean play the game before making any comments atall

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 14 Aug 2006, 18:06

Egarwaen wrote: In case you haven't noticed, hills block radar. And there's a tiny thing called a "Juno" - uninterceptable, hefty blast radius, destroys any radar and jammers instantly. Oops.

In short: play the game before making suggestions.

Junos are uninterceptable? And the resource factory was, iirc, in an old version of AA (pre-Spring). It was this inormous sprawlled-out building that was basically a mega-metal-generator + fusion reactor. Because of it's freakish size it could only be built on big, open, super-flat-maps.

espylaub · Post by **espylaub** » 14 Aug 2006, 18:31

Pxtl wrote:
Egarwaen wrote: In case you haven't noticed, hills block radar. And there's a tiny thing called a "Juno" - uninterceptable, hefty blast radius, destroys any radar and jammers instantly. Oops.

In short: play the game before making suggestions.
Junos are uninterceptable? And the resource factory was, iirc, in an old version of AA (pre-Spring). It was this inormous sprawlled-out building that was basically a mega-metal-generator + fusion reactor. Because of it's freakish size it could only be built on big, open, super-flat-maps.

I would love to see a pic of that :D

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 14 Aug 2006, 18:44

Pxtl wrote:Junos are uninterceptable?

Oh, hm. Good point. I'm not actually sure.

Acidd_UK · Post by **Acidd_UK** » 14 Aug 2006, 18:54

Yeah that does sound kinda cool - like an uber Moho hazardous resource bomb geo-thingy

Now all it needs is dual annis and a flamethrower or two...

BigSteve · Post by **BigSteve** » 14 Aug 2006, 19:38

LathanStanley wrote:my list of current game issues:

Pro's

#1 MASS airlifting/dropping !!! LEET!!

#2 ALL the spring engine graphic and gameplay improvements...

#3 the droves of fun mines!.. this I like!

#4 heavier laser batteries for defense... FUN! (too much range though.. get used as offense too easy)

#5 moho geothermal!... love em

#6 screamer anti-air missles! big shot, big hit, drops a plane like life, slow refire.. works for me!

Con's

#1 Auto-repair on everything, everywhere. ONLY THE COMMANDER should do this, ever.

#2 The EXTEREMETIES units get to.. I mean c'mon, a level 3 k-bot, capable of annihiliting an ENTIRE BASE... BY ITSELF!! that can scale near vertical walls?? who cares what it costs, its unstoppable..

#3 The ... ZERO reclaim time on any kinda fortification wall, and the inability to simply blow them up with artillery...

#4 The uberduper omfg!roxorz leet rage of ALL construction units... namely nano-towers... They were limited on range in the old game to somewhat limit the "stackable" builders on a single factory... and planes, were ALOT more expensive and built, ALOT slower....

#5 Commander + any rubble anywhere after death, rubble = bad.

#6 effectiveness of some amphibious units.... they are a wildcard to catch people by suprise, not a main assault.

#7 Artillery? on a plane? gimmie a break... YES! SABOT ROUNDS ARE ARTILERY!

#8 Too easy to porc, towers have TOOO much range, the damage to cost ratio is good... but they simply start doing damage TOOO far out overall..

#9 ORCONES!.... what happened to CORE being the being the gun/atrillery holder on a tracked tank, and ARM being a big lazer holder on a faster mech? I mean, I KNOW kroggy is damn good... DAMN good... but core ALWAYS had the bigger tanks/units... ARM was just more powerful in the hands of a better player.... but to keep the same simillar units for the most part, and give the ARM the biggest unit in the game? sigh... flashtank fanboys...

#10 moveable bertha... on land, and sea.. if a stationary one isn't bad enough, lets make one CHEAPER THAT MOVES!!!

#11 the abundance of "easy to get metal" and "tightly crammed energy" from JUST BUILDINGS!! -resource factories(+150 metal), metal generators (+1 metal regardless?), cloakable metak makers... twice the metal of a moho metal maker, smaller size, and it cloaks for only about 2.2x the cost?!!?! why would anyone EVER make good ole regular mohos? alien bla bla bla uber nuke reactor +5000 energy etc.. what happened to solar plant, farms with scattered nuke reactors... ?? made you HAVE TO GET BIGGER TO GET MORE POWER!, and FIND MORE METAL TO GET MORE METAL! not to mention that the WHOLE REASON WARS ARE FOUGHT IS OVER RESOURCES! and well... if resources are free... then, the war is pointless...

#12 the fact that #11 buildings are SOOOO tough, they can all survive multiple nukes... a nuke USED to be bad news if it hit a nuke reactor... now its laughable...

#13 sumo's as offense... lol, thats funny... but... you made them VERY FRAKKAN! FAST!... its well.. a bit obsurd... sumos had their place as defense around the heart of the base... where there weren't many "fast" arm tanks that could penetrate the core defensive line, and the sumos could guard the factories without clogging them up... and make quick work of the few mortys and few bulldogs that did break through and outrun the slow ass goliaths.....

#14 "alien tech radar"... what happened to the strategy of forward radar posts? defending your forward posts? etc? why bother, build 2 or three of these, and you have radar for life...

#15 alien tech anything...

#16 tired of listing bad things... I'll name more later....

My advice to lathan

1) Stop drinking to much coca cola, you clearly cant handle all that sugar

2) Just play the mod before you waste 30 minutes typing this crap

I seriously have never seen such an Ill informed account of anything. Ever.

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 14 Aug 2006, 19:45

I tried to look for it... but given that I can't remember the name (facility or factory) and whether it was in AA or TAUIP, I can't find the damn thing. I did find the old TAWP site, which makes me wonder why the rest of the http://www.planetannihilation.com/tauec/tawf.htm
units aren't in AA. I've always felt that AA had a fun goal in being kind of a "well-balanced, low-redundancy" TAUIP... but Caydr's been pruning units instead of adding them. Remember the Mumbo?

Spring RTS Engine

Absolute Annihilation 2.11