XTA Development discussion

Noruas · Post by **Noruas** » 08 Nov 2006, 01:46

similair mobility.

What if they climbed walls?

pintle · Post by **pintle** » 08 Nov 2006, 02:02

AF you do not need 8 crashers. 2 or 3.

AF · Post by AF » 08 Nov 2006, 02:11

Then for a scouter the zipper must be too good or the crashers too weak.

Simply put I have never gotten 2 or 3 crashers or jethros to beat a zipper or freaker in adequate time and average circumstances. I've only experienced such situations as you describe when I have 8-10.

Zippers and freakers just dont belong at lvl 1. You want a raiding bot, whats wrong with the jeffy or the weasel? Heck people used flashes and ak's in OTA, and the movement speed and mobility hasnt changed much since in XTA, and they're faster to build than zippers/freakers.

Noruas · Post by **Noruas** » 08 Nov 2006, 02:20

I mean what if Fleas could climb walls?

pintle · Post by **pintle** » 08 Nov 2006, 02:48

i think fleas build time should be dropped, thats all.

I can post replays of crashers owning zippers, or peewees running past them and baseraping the enemy if you like. Missile towers also apparently work well, but i dont like using them as they die far too easily for my taste. I think the main problem people have vs zipper rush is they instinctively porc a bit, and their expansion is slowed more by the knock to their confidence than anything else.

e.g. start build to beat zipper rush:
(assuming low wind/close start mex spots)

mex
klab (4 peewees, 2 jethros, Cbot, 2 jethros in queue)
mex
solar
mex
solar
radar

obviously that is very general, and map issues change it a lot; but i reckon if you send the peewees in two groups from different sides, you will do more dmg than a zipper rush, and you are ready for teh zipper (unless the enemy is super-rushing and com assisted. If your peewees run into an llt or two, then you are probably economically ahead enough to start com pushing with the jethros and get a foward HLT up.

Imo there is absolutely no balance problem with zippers/freakers.

[KnoX]ElementalGizmo · Post by **[KnoX]ElementalGizmo** » 08 Nov 2006, 03:52

All good pointes, appart from wall climbing

AF · Post by AF » 08 Nov 2006, 18:16

The time it takes to build 4 peewees and 2 jethros is a huge hit to an early game, and shows up especially in AIs, and is infact the equivilant of a small attack party, NTai used to pwn noobs with its initial attack group despite it being weaker than 4 peewees and 2 jethros. Its an absurd amount of time and resources to spend to protect your self from a single lvl 1 unit, and its more than is needed to destroy numerous other lvl 2 units.

pintle · Post by **pintle** » 08 Nov 2006, 18:32

the peewees are the attack group, split into two groups of 2, as i said

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 09 Nov 2006, 22:06

pintle wrote:i think fleas build time should be dropped, thats all.

I can post replays of crashers owning zippers, or peewees running past them and baseraping the enemy if you like. Missile towers also apparently work well, but i dont like using them as they die far too easily for my taste. I think the main problem people have vs zipper rush is they instinctively porc a bit, and their expansion is slowed more by the knock to their confidence than anything else.

e.g. start build to beat zipper rush:
(assuming low wind/close start mex spots)

mex
klab (4 peewees, 2 jethros, Cbot, 2 jethros in queue)
mex
solar
mex
solar
radar

obviously that is very general, and map issues change it a lot; but i reckon if you send the peewees in two groups from different sides, you will do more dmg than a zipper rush, and you are ready for teh zipper (unless the enemy is super-rushing and com assisted. If your peewees run into an llt or two, then you are probably economically ahead enough to start com pushing with the jethros and get a foward HLT up.

Imo there is absolutely no balance problem with zippers/freakers.

dude, If you built that and your opponent built 5 jethros and const bots instead, you will be completely duked by the 10 minute mark as your eco will fall hopelessly behind. missle units do 36 odd damage. lol. NO USE. peewees are d-gun fodder.

pintle · Post by **pintle** » 09 Nov 2006, 22:25

im at work atm.

you on tonight? we can 1v1 and test if you like.

Someone builds all those crashers
a) peewees would get there before they were built

b) peewees would own them

c) they have no scouts

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 09 Nov 2006, 23:50

cant

open GL is still boned, I can only use bots because its really rude to crash half way into games as I do every time I play online. weasels and jeffys are incredibly under used in xta. maybe because everyone goes kbot.
It'd be cool to make them closer to their OTA cousin (spammable and laughably weak)

AF · Post by AF » 10 Nov 2006, 13:32

pintle, that might do fine if only for one obstacle

d-gunning ftw, watch an NTai meet 15 peewees, they're all blown up with ease by NTai's trigger happy commander.

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 10 Nov 2006, 13:38

isnt it about time someone fixed peepers and teh air scouts? atm they are infallably hit by the first missle aimed at them and destroyed. in OTA their speed let them escape from harm and be used early game to watch frontlines, but now they are stupidly weak and have to be used in swarms. wouldnt it be hip to make them fly higher and move faster so they can at least have a chance of dodging missles? one hit kill with a 100% of hitting sucks.

AF · Post by AF » 10 Nov 2006, 22:53

Issues with scouting came up in NTai.

Zippers took ages to build and then you had an AI with 1 scouter that had to be protected despite its suicidal rading behaviour requirements, then have to wait 10 mintues for another zipper to be queued up.

Most scouters in XTA are too powerful and expensive and seem to be making themselves out to be raiding units such as the zipper and somewhat the jeffy/weasel, and other scout units have been totally neglected such as the peeper and flea. Thus there arent really any scouting units in XTA save the mobile radar units and spies.

pintle · Post by **pintle** » 11 Nov 2006, 04:01

want me to post replays of me winning games vs players who are, no offence, better than you, with 4 peewee rush?

MICRO pwns dgun.

[KnoX]ElementalGizmo · Post by **[KnoX]ElementalGizmo** » 11 Nov 2006, 04:15

Ill give the peepers a boost in a test intresting thought.

And more work is going to be done tommo with the fast-w. Also gunna try that model swop with fleas.

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 11 Nov 2006, 12:42

buffed scout planes would be V good. same price mind. if I had my way l1 and l2 fighters would be able to avoid a proportion of missles fired at them too OTA style. its not like they are a threat to ground.
is anything ever going to happen to The Can? it lacks its OTA character and is a bit lame atm, not a viable option with gimps and pyros around. its only good for endgame "Lols 200 metal incomes mega wave o deff!", using them at other times isnt really viable due to their inefficent cost/power

pintle · Post by **pintle** » 11 Nov 2006, 14:08

cans work well to get los for domi's and morties, or act as a skirmish line to meet the counterattack to your bombardment

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 11 Nov 2006, 16:02

but for their cost, wouldnt it be cheaper to use a spy-bot, a scout plane, or l1 infrantry bot? the can is a bit pricy to get chewed up by HLTS and popups while your dominators slowly pummel away. and again, for the cost of a line of (700 metal I THINK) cans, you could defend your arty far more cheaply with a swarm of l1 infantry kbots or pyros. cans suxxors for their cost, i almost never see them used, which is a mega shame as they should owns.

[KnoX]ElementalGizmo · Post by **[KnoX]ElementalGizmo** » 11 Nov 2006, 17:48

Im sure as hell not going to beaf the canns HP, dps perhaps. Thats fine my oppinon, it does lack something though now u mention it.

Im just about ot try n play about with the fast-w model swop n stats.

Ill boost the vtol scouts by JUST enough to bypass one MT missle, raise its cruise hight n maybe a higher max speed velosity.

Just for testing atm, im not stating im definatly putting them ok.

Ow n ivory, get ur gcard working again i need more testers!

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