Galactic Empire Mod stuff

[TheRegisteredOne]

I don't really understand why everyone keeps complaining about Caydr's models and texturing, he's already admitted they suck and he plans to redo them, so why keep mentioning it?

I like the original better. That's the fugliest chunk of fugly I've ever seen, and fugly.

this is why

[smoth]

I like the original better. That's the fugliest chunk of fugly I've ever seen, and fugly.

I finally have the time to address this comment.

Caydr, there is no need to get defensive. I was simply illustrating what I think YOUR models if given the fair shot could look like. I want to see good texturing on your models even though I HATE the metallic look I think that the models could really look good with better texturing. That was what I was trying to say. I am surprised you would call my work fucking ugly(FUGLY) esp when it is to be frank of a higher level. I was and still am willing to help you at the least by critiquing your work.

Do not get me wrong, I have learned some things about your AA mod that I would have rather remained ignorant to but I still want to cheer for your GEM mod because it is 100% caydr. This seems to be where you have a misunderstanding with me. Even with the stuff I have heard about you and the stuff tro has heard about you. In our own way were were both trying to help you. While tro may be more confrontational then I am he meant well initially.

However, when you attacked my work after I complimented you tro as nice as he is had no reason to hold back after what you had said. As it has been proven, in game the texture did in fact look good. I think to make it clear to the community... that was what I was arguing about people were lacking the imagination to see what it would have looked like... yet when I posted an in game image their tune changed.

Dude, we butt heads and yes, I now see AA with a bit of for lack of a better word taint to it. However, do not think for one second that ANYONE here does not want to see your mod be the best that it can be. Just bear with us, we are trying to give you a crash course in modding.

Oh and BTW... wings3d does have uvw mapping support. so you can uvwmapp in wings and that would save you the max step... or was that someone else using max? Anyway, I hope this clears things up so you understand my intent. I am off to bed, class in 7.5 hours.

[Caydr]

This is a very nice model, but an awful texture:


Nothing at all against Argh's work, it's very nice, that's all I have to say about it. As to the texture Smoth made, it looks like something out of a cheesy made-for-tv sci-fi movie. What are those purple spots? Windows? Windows on a core battle tank? For what, the computer to look out of? Why is it black, when it is clearly not a unit designed for stealth? Why waste the time painting it the one colour that could not possibly disguise it in any known battle situation except a nighttime battle which isn't possible in Spring? There's no intelligent design there. There's no reason for a battle tank to be black. There's no reason for a battle tank to have windows. And for a core battle tank doubly so. I mean, what's your reasoning? It makes no sense at all. So why paint a spaceship with those colours when it would be so easily detected on radar using any number of futuristic technologies? Stellar occlusion, matter displacement (if applicable), heat output, gravity modification... like.... there's no reason at all for a spaceship to be anything but a plain metal hull. Why windows? Cameras would be the only instrument capable of seeing the target in any realistic space battle? So why should my spaceships be black and purple? Or painted? Like... give me logical reasons, because "it looks cool" doesn't fit the bill for me.

My textures aren't the nicest looking, but your criticism, whether constructive or not, holds little water if this is what you consider a decent-looking texture. I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm just getting straight to the point as usual. People find it offensive sometimes, but I don't have time to salt and flavour my every word so that I sound like something out of a political commercial. It's a nasty texture that's got absolutely nothing to do with any established standard in OTA or any mod that's ever been made for it. If it was for another game where units were consistently black with blue-purple-white highlights, sure, that's fine, but I can't with a straight face imagine that unit being put in XTA (as this was a unit request from the SYs for their mod).

I was simply illustrating what I think YOUR models if given the fair shot could look like

I don't want my models to look like random purple glowy things. They don't paint the space shuttle in camo and they don't make satellites with random glowy bits. I've established that this game is being modeled after a game from 1994 and my textures are close replicas, while my models are of identical quality (within reason). I can understand artistic license, certainly, but a black and purple tank in the midst of an army of thuds and cans would look ridiculous! Come on, picture it, it's silly.

I HATE the metallic look

The ships are metal, are painted hastily if at all, and aren't supposed to look like something from captain future and the world of tomorrow. It's a grungy, industrial-looking game. The ships are grungy metal. The interface is grungy metal. The entire thing is largely composed of grungy metal. I'm not going to make my spaceships purple or pink or green, I'm going to make them grungy metallic. You've never played the game obviously, and I seriously doubt anyone on this forum has played or even HEARD of it.

I am surprised you would call my work fucking ugly(FUGLY) esp when it is to be frank of a higher level

Purple tank. I rest my case.

I have learned some things about your AA mod that I would have rather remained ignorant

So say them.

Even with the stuff I have heard about you and the stuff tro has heard about you

So say them. I've got nothing to be afraid of, and there's nothing I've done that I'm uncomfortable with being discussed here, where I am able to defend myself.

However, when you attacked my work after I complimented you tro as nice as he is had no reason to hold back after what you had said

Purple tank. TRO can say anything he wants about "crude mapping", he's obviously as clueless as you are as to what I'm aiming for.

As it has been proven, in game the texture did in fact look good

Be that as it may, I haven't seen it. All I've seen is a purple tank and a guy saying that I should texture like he does because his way for his mod is superior to my way for my mod.

I now see AA with a bit of for lack of a better word taint to it

This doesn't make any grammatical sense. AA is tainted? AA taints the game? errr....

we are trying to give you a crash course in modding

I need not your crash course nor your purple tanks. I've been doing AA for years. Last I checked it was the most played mod for Spring. If and when that changes, I'll take your advice.

wings3d does have uvw mapping support <snip> that would save you the max step

I realize this, it's in very early development and doesn't do a very good job though. Furthermore, you need max in order to export to s3o, unless some new exporter is available. In any case, max is the most widely-accepted format, things can be stored in it and exported to virtually any format you want, so I'll keep my models and textures in max. I still model with Wings of course, I swear by it, max's modeling is horrid.

I don't really understand why everyone keeps complaining about Caydr's models and texturing, he's already admitted they suck and he plans to redo them, so why keep mentioning it?

Deci, I appreciate the support but I should "fight my own battles" as it were, I think... don't want you to take any grief from anyone that doesn't belong to you.

All this being said,

I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm just getting straight to the point as usual. People find it offensive sometimes, but I don't have time to salt and flavour my every word so that I sound like something out of a political commercial.

And seriously, whatever trumped-up bullcrap anyone can come up with against me is welcome here, I'd like to clear my name (for the millionth time) rather than have you believing lies about me.

[AF]

hmm, I wonder who pressed the self destruct button for this thread first.

[smoth]

Again, I think you are being to defensive. It is not that I wanted your spaceships to look like the way I textured the tank. I was trying to point out something you missed. I have drawn in many details either machinery or engine bits. The style would not work for your ships. A ship that is black like that in a space mod would be hard to see but the textures you have done thus far looked rushed. I am trying to encourage you to go back and revisit them. Not neccessarily in the same style, that style would not work for GEM. I figured the image would make it clear why I wanted you to.

As you yourself have admitted your texturing is not good and I honestly believe that if you spend some time on them and took a short break from modeling it would be great. Just the request of someone who would like to see something more finished. I know you will eventually go back but it would be great to get a look at what they should look like.

As far as my texture on arghs model. Core do have intelligent design That is how they are living machines possessing a transferred consciousness. Why black, easy color isn't important but sealing out elements like rain etc seemed logical so I was thinking it would have to be coated in something. As far as calling it cheesy... is that not a low blow? As far as your windows.. beileif... yeah, it would I wanted to give it a way to SEE... so it seemed like there would be some sort of sensory apparatus around the sides of it. In the glow map I was going to make it look like there was the glow of some sort of lens. The purple light is used to keep the glass clean by a, killing bacteria/algae that may grow and also to give it a extra way of illuminating the ground around it should a low lying feature come too close and some sort of sight recognition be required.

Also, I have been unable to procure any images from the original game. All I have been able to find were images from an old dos game. Being that GEM was in 1994 I doubt it looked that bad. Care to post some images for us?

As for AA being tainted. I am saying it is tainted by the controversy over the authors of the units and the supposed lack of permission for their usage in your mod. I am aware that you and DarkYouth had a massive falling out and that you are pretty unwelcome at TAU. For BOTH communities to have spurned you makes me rather concerned about the possibility of you stealing the units for your mod. While I know you may see this as me accusing you of these things it is simply something that i have been told over and over. I do not know if it is true or not but it makes me rather reluctant to play AA anymore. Feel free to clear it up, I don't see the point though.

I have class shortly I will finish later but again you are making it about me VS you. it is not like that.

Oh, and here is the aforementioned ingame shot:

I am sure you have something derisive to say about it and I'll get back that also when I am done for the day.

[Caydr]

You're right, I didn't go to the trouble of asking each of 30-odd authors, many of which can no longer be contacted, for their permission. That being said, units by themselves are totally useless. You can't go on Zone or PW or anywhere else and say, get these 60 units from these 14 different sites I like so we can play. Likewise for Spring. Individual units are worthless. Not that they are bad units, otherwise I'd not have used them, just that they must be integrated into a cohesive package in order to be of any use. If anything, I'd expect unit authors to be happy to see their unit actually being commonly used, not just wasting away in cyberspace largely unnoticed. I have in fact been contacted by at least one unit author that comes to mind who said he was very surprised and happy to see that I'd put his units in AA. I give proper credit where credit is due, and there is not only a complete list of unit groups whose units are included, but also links to where their units can be found in their original form.

I can understand where a unit author might be upset to see his units featured in some kind of hastily-assembled mishmash like TAUCP, TAUIP, and so forth, but I've gone to the trouble of making sure that every single unit is presented the best it can be, even going to the extent of retexturing some models whose original texture was not, in my humble opinion, up to par. An example is the core Tremor, a much-beloved unit by AA core players and a hated nemesis for any arm player Its original texture job, at least for me, didn't even appear ingame, regardless of the use of several texture packs that were supposed to make it work.

If any unit creator wants to come forward and say they don't want their unit in AA, I will remove it as soon as possible, ie, the next version probably. But given that nobody besides you has even mentioned this to me, it's hard to believe that there's any resentment there.

As far as your tank is concerned, the explanation that colour isn't important doesn't work. No other core unit, not even their prized high-tech Krogoth, has any kind of even vaguely similar colour scheme, nor do they appear to use this style of window. IMO, consistency is just as important, if not more important, than quality.

As it happens, I know I have some old ingame pictures of Imperium Galactica here somewhere and I'll post them when I get the chance.

Darkyouth and I have had no falling out. In fact, let's just say he recently asked for my support for a future endeavour. He now keeps his nose out of my business and vice versa, and everything has been fine since we worked that out. He deleted my forum at PA because I was redirecting traffic to another forum that Gamespy had provided me with, one which I could have a more reasonable degree of control over so that it could suit AA's needs. He misunderstood the purpose of my redirecting, and I misunderstood his purpose of deleting it. As far as TAU, I'll give you the condensed version:

1) I complain that Prezkennedy is being a prick
2) I am ignored/topics erased, likely by PK himself
3) PMs are ignored
4) I arrange hosting at PA instead, go on a spamming spree and basically burn my bridges as best I can
5) More than a year later, PrezKennedy finally has his privieleges revoked for abuse and is meanwhile being banned/unbanned repeatedly from PA because we was spreading his.... uh... personality there as well

Can you connect the dots here?

By now TAU has turned into nothing more than a massive board-spanning flame-war. Virtually none of what goes on there has anything to do with TA, and they have even gone to the extent of opening up a religion forum to contain some of the pissing contests between various extremist members. The one person there who had the right to be really upset at me, Storm, I've since apologized to on several occasions and I believe he's accepted my apology. I was not at all impressed by my experience at TAU, and was making preperations to leave almost from the moment my hosting was arranged there. Now TAU is all angry and bitter at me, refusing to play AA and attacking anyone who does. They'll come up with any excuse to make me look like the bad guy. How demented does a community have to be in order to still be pissed off, what, 2 years after the fact, when the very thing I was complaining about and forced me to leave was later found to be completely true?

Since the incident at TAU, what have I done? Have I done anything but good for the entire TA/Spring-playing community? Some people are so desperate to find something about me to get angry with that they call me a glory hog, their reasoning being that AA is played so much I must... uh... be... doing it on purpose!!!! Or something! Yes, I'm a real big glory hog, I spend hundreds of hours working on stuff, give it away for free, ask nothing at all in return, this makes me some kind of monster.

[FLOZi]

PK is, and indeed, always has been a complete c*** who should not be allowed near a computer, nevermind an admin panel.

Nevertheless, you should not have acted the way you did when you left.

[Caydr]

Probably not, but I did. 2+ years ago. I didn't even know it was possible to hold a grudge that long over something so inconsequential. I couldn't have even been more than 15 years old at the time! I felt, and rightly so, that not even one of the moderators or administrators gave a damn about the garbage PK was doing. With well over a dozen moderators, I found the boards to still be completely unregulated. As long as you were a moderator or a friend of a moderator, you could do and say anything you want. Last I checked, this was still the case. With a situation like that, how can an entire forum get so riled up over what couldn't have been more than 10 posts filled with garbage, when at the time at least, the ENTIRE FORUM was filled with garbage?

My posts couldn't have even been on the board for more than a few hours, and it's doubtful that the entire community saw what I posted in that brief timeframe. So over the years, what have my dozen or so posts filled with random crap turned into in the process of telling and re-telling? I don't even want to know...

[smoth]

AH, ok that makes more sense. Thanks for the clarification. The impression I was given was that they were taken. Interesting, how people twist shit.

I am glad we are cool now. I was terribly vexed. I look forward to the art work from gem.

[Archangel of Death]

Sweat! Finally! *pats smoth and Caydr on the back and hands them both non-alcoholic beverages* You'll have to behave amicable with each other a little longer before I let you two near each other while drunk

What I think smoth has been trying to get at about textures as that you should put some widgets in your textures. This can greatly improve and accentuate a model. Even with my less than pathetic texturing skills I still tried to pick textures that added a desired detail to an area on those few 3do's I've dared to make.

[TheRegisteredOne]

PK is, and indeed, always has been a complete c*** who should not be allowed near a computer, nevermind an admin panel.

Nevertheless, you should not have acted the way you did when you left.

i remember you when you were named Bershe, you were an okay guy, but i wasn't there when all of this crap happened, so i can only guess wtf went between you and the tau management from what people have told me. but if you got banned from the boards, you must've done something serious. From what you said, I think it is completely unneccessary to flame and spam a board for what prezK did, and doing so only shifted the blame from pk to you.

You should understand that when i critisize your work, i do so, not because what you did at tau, but because i believe your ships' designs and what you believe to be beautiful to be really really ugly, and what you believe to be ugly - smoth's texture and homeworldish ships - is quite beautiful to me. I dispise your lack of taste and style.

As for aa's credit system, it would be nice to state which group did which unit, so other people's *cough* excellent work can't be mistaken . I am sure unit makers out there would be extremely happy if you can acknowlege how their unit is special compared to the losers sharing the same buildmenu, how their unit uses this wonderous innovative scripting, their hours spent on modelling, texturing, bp rendering. all of which are communicated with the ta player if they had downloaded the unit from the unit site, but aa sadly dismisses. btw, the spring stargate does not require your oh-so-important unit limit. zwzsg, I, and Zodius would be honoured if you would include it in AA.

[Caydr]

Want to guess who banned me? My memory of the incident is blurry, since it was more than 2 years ago, but I'm reasonably sure it was PK who took credit for it.

About the tank: OK, even supposing I LOVED the texture, I still wouldn't use it because it's completely inconsistent with any established Core design philosophy.

Ehh... yeah... about the stargate... I don't really like the way it works to be honest. That being said, a "Nydus Canal" sort of thing is an interesting idea, but like I said earlier, I value consistency just as much as quality. The stargate unit looks completely different from any other unit, and what's more it doesn't function properly unless it's used "just so", from what I've heard. And above all, I'd have to explain how to use it in my readme, and we all know how many people actually take the time to read it.

I can't very easily go back and say which unit came from where anymore, they're all mixed together and all commented lines (where stuff like, "unit by TA power" or whatever, can usually be found) have been removed to clean up the FBI files. I could probably track down about half of them, but that's it. AA only has like... 100 or so 3rd party units, I think. Let's see... I got a handful from MAD TA I think... about 5 from TAWF... ........ ..... that's actually about all I can remember. Oh and I grabbed the viking out of TLL. I remember seeing "Silencer" in the readme files for a few of them, so whatever group he's in probably has a few. The core Krow was completely unidentifiable except I finally noticed a comment in the FBI file that said "StoneAge Creations"... Anyone even heard of this group? Those are the only ones that spring to mind. The rest were probably just 1 unit from this group, another from this one, etc. Some of the groups listed don't even have their units in AA anymore, for instance I think C.A.N.A.D.A.'s only unit was the "samurai" or something, a core heavy battleship, and it's long since gone.

[Mars Keeper]

I thought you promised to realese a beta around spring this year, and its summer now!

(/me still remembers 2005, I think)

Anyway, we still want to know what has happened the last months?

[Zenka]

I thought you promised to realese a beta around spring this year, and its summer now!

(/me still remembers 2005, I think)

Anyway, we still want to know what has happened the last months?

He was, but a peewee riot grabbed him and forced him to work on AA again.

[Das Bruce]

GEM : Forever?

[Mars Keeper]

GEM : Forever?

Hopefuly not...

Lets see what Caydr has to say about this.

[Dragon45]

The problem is that Spring has shitty collision boxes. Its the same reason SWTA:War In Space for Spring isn't happening.