Wikileaks

[Licho]

Ladies and gentlemen! We've got 'em!

curious how it will play out.

You know what is he accused from?
He had sex with one woman several times and they both agreed, but last time without condom - and woman (feminist activist with brother in Afghanistan really pissed on wikileaks) now claims it was without condom against her will. That's one case of rape.

Second woman says they had consensual sex, but the condom broke and she feels it broke because he fucked her incorrectly.

Oh boy this is hiralious. Sounds like waste of public money to me :)

I hope I won't get sued too for multiple rapes, but I guess you have to piss USA for that.

http://www.anorak.co.uk/257430/media/ho ... -rape.html

[FireStorm_]

(Insert joke about leaks here.)

priceless.
Also:
Since I'm a Kaaskop I'm now in doubt to either go to sleep or try my chances at a dance club.
I mean, my fridge is full of cheese, I just never thought of bringing the stuff along.

[SpliFF]

http://www.carolineglick.com/e/2010/12/ ... llenge.php

Pffft! Rubbish. Do Americans research anything before opening their traps?

The entire premise of the article that Wikileaks is an enemy of the US is easily negated by the simple fact that Wikileaks have previously leaked documents about other countries, including Americas' enemies. The only reason the US feels so victimised is because:

a.) They have the lions share of leaks, most of it leaked by US citizens and the direct result of lax security (what kind of idiots put unregulated CD-burners in classified networks)?

*and*

b.) Behind the scenes they fail to act with the same moral authority and "love of freedom" they loudly and repeatedly demand of others.

Not that the US is alone in this. Australia and Swedens moral authority are both looking pretty shakey right now as well. I don't think any country is going to come out of this smelling of roses.

But yeah, boo hoo America. You'd have got more sympathy if you hadn't resorted to attacking free speech, advocating murder and interfering in legal commerce while simultaneously claiming democracy is under attack (from truth of all things). It is under attack, by Americans. You're still too dumb to figure that out.

[Johannes]

http://www.carolineglick.com/e/2010/12/ ... llenge.php

"Make no mistake about it, the ongoing WikiLeaks operation against the US is an act of war. It is not merely a criminal offense to publish hundreds of thousands of classified US government documents with malice aforethought. It is an act of sabotage."

Way to start article with such basic factual error, it's not criminal offense to publish this stuff... Just to leak it

[Gota]

this assanje guy should have been smarter and only fuck poor women in failing countries that don't have internet or feminists.

[smoth]

But yeah, boo hoo America. You'd have got more sympathy if you hadn't resorted to attacking free speech, advocating murder and interfering in legal commerce while simultaneously claiming democracy is under attack (from truth of all things). It is under attack, by Americans. You're still too dumb to figure that out.

hang on while I glare at yet another AMERICANS ARE EVIL post and feel disgusted.

[SpliFF]

hang on while I glare at yet another AMERICANS ARE EVIL post and feel disgusted.

Spend less time glaring and more time reading. I said they were acting DUMB, not evil. I just outlined what they were doing so the "evil" tag comes from your own interpretation of events.

This whole thing reminds me of a Red Dwarf episode where each character is judged based on their own definitions of right and wrong. We've listened to the U.S. preach for years but it doesn't hold itself to it's own standards. Lets see the record:

Terrorism is bad.
The CIA has a long documented history of engaging in murder and funding terrorist groups including those it now pursues (including al-Queada).

Dictatorship is bad.
There's a history of funding and imposing dictators on foreign nations (including Saddam).

Democracy is great.
Yet it has a history of electoral rigging at home and abroad. It has also been involved in coups against elected governments.

The free market is great.
Yet it has some of the highest tariffs in the world and bailed out failed businesses with taxpayers money.

Free speech is an inalienable right. Censorship is bad.
Yet here we are with this latest nonsense - threats and attacks on a media organisation.

[smoth]

But yeah, boo hoo America. You'd have got more sympathy if you hadn't resorted to attacking free speech, advocating murder and interfering in legal commerce while simultaneously claiming democracy is under attack (from truth of all things). It is under attack, by Americans. You're still too dumb to figure that out.

Hang on, I will work on my reading comprehension. <-is american therefor I am the person(s) you are addressing.

[hoijui]

...
The time has come for America to hear the truth about this tragic war. In international conflicts, the truth is hard to come by because most nations are deceived about themselves. Rationalizations and the incessant search for scapegoats are the psychological cataracts that blind us to our sins. But the day has passed for superficial patriotism. He who lives with untruth lives in spiritual slavery. Freedom is still the bonus we receive for knowing the truth.
...

Sadly, this time is still here, and it is no less itchy then back then.

full text:
http://husseini.org/2007/01/martin-luth ... -i-am.html

audio (shortened version of the above speech):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b80Bsw0UG-U

if this guy would be around today, he would fully embrace Wikileaks and he would serve the US and the world a speech about the whole thing, that would let torben guys with none, not even the most ridiculous arguments.

[FireStorm_]

hang on while I glare at yet another AMERICANS ARE EVIL post and feel disgusted.

I thought for a moment I was guilty of such a post as well, but:

US prosecutors are reportedly preparing charges against Assange under the Espionage Act.
US may use Sweden to extradite Assange.

Your government does want him, right? I'll be more careful to not write "Americans" when I actually mean "American Government." And I admit that atm I'm not sure charges are being prepared.

But they already got the actual "spy", who is a product of their own army machine in combination with intolerant behaviour against his person.

Assange is a journalist, he didn't steal the cablegates. He more or less quoted them. It seems to me charging him as a spy will conflict with the American 1st, yes the 1st (I think its important so I'm going to say it again: THE FIRST!) amendment.

By that logic charge the NY-Times as well.

Hell! charge Lady GaGa, her music was used to steal the cables!

[hoijui]

ouh look... John F. Kennedy already made a pro Wikileaks speech:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dxnpujfa ... re=related

[SpliFF]

Your government does want him, right? I'll be more careful to not write "Americans" when I actually mean "American Government."

Well there are no shortage of American bloggers and pundits who share the governments attitude.

And I admit that atm I'm not sure charges are being prepared.

Oh they are being prepared alright. The only question is whether they'll stick.

But they already got the actual "spy", who is a product of their own army machine in combination with intolerant behaviour against his person.

Perhaps. We only really have Adrian Lamo's word for that and on all accounts Adrian sounds like a complete prick.

Assange is a journalist, he didn't steal the cablegates. He more or less quoted them. It seems to me charging him as a spy will conflict with the American 1st, yes the 1st (I think its important so I'm going to say it again: THE FIRST!) amendment.

Unfortunately it won't conflict with any amendments because, as people need to be constantly reminded, Julian is not an American.

By that logic charge the NY-Times as well.

I've heard that being seriously suggested. It's more likely they'll just get the silent treatment for a while and less invitations to press conferences (which is basically how the white house keeps the mainstream press in line). Of course with early access to 250,000 potential scandals the NYT probably figure it's a fair trade.

Hell! charge Lady GaGa, her music was used to steal the cables!

How about charge the idiots who installed the CD burner. I can't believe nobody's talking about that! How the fuck did they expect to restrict unauthorised copying when they store classified secrets on a PC with removable media? What part of "removable" did the system designers not understand? Where was the alarm when a low-level private (allegedly) copied 250,000 files. What possible use could anyone at any level have for a 1/4 million files except to sell them to the Russians? How much did the system designers charge for these systems that could clearly be hacked by muppets?

I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised to find the systems were supplied under a Haliburton contract and cost $100,000 each.

[hoijui]

if someone is good in IT security (=> they have heard of encryption), they would probably not be maintaining PC stuff in the army.
There are bank IT security personnel that never heard of public-private key encryption. actually, whole staffs full of such.
This is a nice thing though. I mean, in the worst case, some "hacker" (=> is using public-private key enc. on a DAiLY BASiS!) could still fix up gov/army/banks internal IT structure, if they decide to do shit. so i am pro low security in those sectors.

chief: "Hey, is our stuff secure?"
security-chief: "sir, as much as possible, sir!"
chief: "can we have it even more secure?"
security-chief: "sir, yes, sir! i recommend employing additional log-file scanning staff, sir!"
chief: "how much would it require to double security?"
security-chief: "sir, about 5 licensed, professional log-file scanning IT specialists, sir ... 30'000$ per month, sir!"
chief: "go for it, son! and get yourself a little extra, will you!? "
security-chief: "sir, yes, sir! :D"

security-chief: "hey ma! i got jobs for Bobby, Jimmy, Johny, Joey and Brian!"
ma: "You are such a good brother, sweetheart!"

[Gota]

Oh...silliness...wtf is this forum?the liberal/communist/socialist/relativist hub?

Lets see how some other western government would react if so many secret documents were leaked out causing massive PR issues and hurt foreign interests.
All europeans should be thankfull america exists cause they are completely helpless to fend off any violations of any rights at all(not to mention they are themselves xenophobic when it comes to their own individual countries).
Europe is mostly good at talking loudly and dticking its nose up while buying bood diamonds and trading arms to african and middlea eastern countries(and im saying this while I'm completely on assanje's side).

If I need to pick between china russia and US i know what ill pick any time of day.

[FireStorm_]

Agreed.

liberal/communist/socialist/relativist hub?

but you forgot "rational."

And consider the following?
Europe is good at other things too.
Other countries do these things too.

If I had to chose between charging Assange or charging people who seriously said he should be assassinated, I know what I'll pick any time of day.

[SpliFF]

Lets see how some other western government would react if so many secret documents were leaked out causing massive PR issues and hurt foreign interests.

That's happening right now (article). What's your point exactly? I seriously doubt any other western democracies would go to such lengths to persecute a media organisation, especially when the tide of public opinion is so strongly in Wikileaks favour.

Anyway, on a less ridiculous note I stumbled across Assanges old personal website (archived in 2007) and his manifesto.

The more secretive or unjust an organization is, the more leaks induce fear and paranoia in its leadership and planning coterie. This must result in minimization
of efficient internal communications mechanisms (an increase in cognitive "secrecy tax") and consequent system-wide cognitive decline resulting in decreased ability to hold onto power as the environment demands adaption.

Hence in a world where leaking is easy, secretive or unjust systems are nonlinearly hit relative to open, just systems. Since unjust systems, by their nature induce opponents, and in many places barely have the upper hand, mass leaking leaves them exquisitely vulnerable to those who seek to replace them
with more open forms of governance.

Only revealed injustice can be answered; for man to do anything intelligent he has to know what's actually going on.

If he's right, that could explain why America is more outraged by these leaks than the nations and leaders the leaks disparage.

It's also interesting to see his views on large corporations:

It has been frequently noted that many corporations exceed nation states in GDP. It has been less frequently noted that some also exceed them in population (employees).

But it is odd that the comparison hasn't been taken further. Since so many live in the state of the corporation, let us take the comparison seriously and ask the following question. What kind of states are giant corporations?

In comparing countries, after the easy observations of population size and GDP, it is usual to compare the system of government, the major power groupings and the civic freedoms available to their populations.

The corporation as a nation state has the following properties:

* Suffrage (the right to vote) does not exist except for land holders ("share holders") and even there voting power is in proportion to land ownership.
* All executive power flows from a central committee. Female representation is almost unknown.
* There is no division of powers. There is no forth estate. There are no juries and innocence is not presumed.
* Failure to submit to any order can result in instant exile.
* There is no freedom of speech. There is no right of association. Love is forbidden without state approval.
* The economy is centrally planned.
* There is pervasive surveillance of movement and electronic communication.
* The society is heavily regulated and this regulation is enforced, to the degree many employees are told when, where and how many times a day they can goto the toilet.
* There is almost no transparency and something like the FOIA is unimaginable.
* The state has one party. Opposition groups (unions) are banned, surveilled or marginalized whenever and wherever possible.

These large multinationals, despite having a GDP and population comparable to Belgium, Denmark or New Zealand have nothing like their quality of civic freedoms. Internally they mirror the most pernicious aspects of the 1960s Soviet. This even more striking when the civilising laws of region the company operates in are weak (e.g West Pupua or South Korea). There one can see the behavior of these new states clearly, unobscured by their surroundings.

If small business and non-profits are eliminated from the US, then what's left? Some kind of federation of Communist states.

A United Soviet of America.

[SpliFF]

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2010/12/152465.htm

The United States announced today that it will host next year's UNESCO World Press Freedom Day event in Washington from May 1-3. The press release says:

The United States places technology and innovation at the forefront of its diplomatic and development efforts. New media has empowered citizens around the world to report on their circumstances, express opinions on world events, and exchange information in environments sometimes hostile to such exercises of individualsÔÇÖ right to freedom of expression.

At the same time, we are concerned about the determination of some governments to censor and silence individuals, and to restrict the free flow of information.

[Gota]

"That's happening right now (article). What's your point exactly? I seriously doubt any other western democracies would go to such lengths to persecute a media organisation, especially when the tide of public opinion is so strongly in Wikileaks favour."

What is that video?how is it relevant?look at it again,analyze what you see and what is happening.
There is no room for comparison.
The leaks hurt the US's foreign interests first and foremost, both on the level of actual personal that will have to be replaced, the political leverage that other countries will have cause their representatives and leaders were some what humiliated by these cables and all sorts of other diplomatic relations that are now hurt cause internal documents were released.
It's strange to me why you'd use an Austrailan VS USA comparison when it comes ot free speech since it is Australia that is censuring it's citizen's interwebs.
Why don't you go rage over that some as well?

Where are you with your long monologues about how the Russian government killed and kills people in russia who oppose the regime or criticize it (outside the russian borders as well,remember British radiated tea?)?
Or about Russian spies in the US or britain that were discovered?
What about china's support of one of the most oppressive and isolated regimes ever known to men?i.e north korea.

or do you only know to use populistic topics to bash capitalistic pig USA?Get some perspective already.

[Hoi]

Hang on, I will work on my reading comprehension. <-is american therefor I am the person(s) you are addressing.

If people talk about Americans being evil, they usually mean the goverment/cia/big businesses and things like that.

If people say Americans are stupid, they usually mean the ones who only want to hear "Ladies and Gentlemen, we got 'em!" - While they actually don't even know the facts and while they don't know what is being talked about.

And yes, there are a lot of stupid americans. But these kind of people also exist in other countries.

[Johannes]

Where are you with your long monologues about how the Russian government killed and kills people in russia who oppose the regime or criticize it (outside the russian borders as well,remember British radiated tea?)?
Or about Russian spies in the US or britain that were discovered?
What about china's support of one of the most oppressive and isolated regimes ever known to men?i.e north korea.

Why should there be long monologues on Russia or China when this thread is about leaked US stuff?