New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

[Licho]

I really think the best solution is just to use ValidMaps.Lua

This map breaks CA. So, CA shouldn't be played on it. So CA should not list it as a valid map.

And who will check every new map for such things? Its best to have lobby option to disable map lua.

[smoth]

I don't care if someone makes a map that fucks up gundam. I will just tell people not to play it and later add a gadget to immediately end the game if they play on that map.

That's the start of a gadget war. Main reason I am against a "solution" like renaming CA's wind gadget.

I also suggested making an alternative climate as a map option for ca people but you guys wanted to ignore that suggestion.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

so you cant make wind in space again, geez there goes the entire CA community back to BA

[Licho]

so you cant make wind in space again, geez there goes the entire CA community back to BA

GJ at trolling..
BA community would react the same if there was hidden map gadget specifically targeted at silently disabling some key unit.

[Otherside]

so you cant make wind in space again, geez there goes the entire CA community back to BA

GJ at trolling..
BA community would react the same if there was hidden map gadget specifically targeted at silently disabling some key unit.

if you disabled metal makers it would do them some good they might actually learn how to play the game properly and expand :p.

[Beherith]

Please refrain from further trolling/otness. I was so glad this thread went to 8 pages as a civil discussion.

[luckywaldo7]

I don't care if someone makes a map that fucks up gundam. I will just tell people not to play it and later add a gadget to immediately end the game if they play on that map.

That's the start of a gadget war. Main reason I am against a "solution" like renaming CA's wind gadget.

I also suggested making an alternative climate as a map option for ca people but you guys wanted to ignore that suggestion.

That solution would be dependent on Beherith willing to put extra work on the map just to accommodate one game that isn't played that terribly much anyway . I wouldn't blame him at all for not being interested.


Anyway, an idea on a compromise: CA's gadget, instead of defaulting to 0 min wind and 2.5 max wind, instead defaults to whatever values the map provides. That way, default settings would be just as the mapper intended, but it gives the players the opportunity to use different values should they so desire. Then Beherith would not need to override CA's gadget. Players could change wind values if they felt the game was "broken", but by doing so would be acknowledging that break in "immersiveness" was their fault.

[MidKnight]

It seems that my idea has been overlooked in the heat of the flamewar:

From what I can see, the problem can be resolved by allowing the map to disable wind, unless the player changes the modside map values. Then, the map plays as Beherith wishes it to play, unless the person playing the map wants to play it differently.

[Beherith]

Having it default to map is completely reasonable. If you commit this ill modify apophis.

[smoth]

That solution would be dependent on Beherith willing to put extra work on the map just to accommodate one game that isn't played that terribly much anyway . I wouldn't blame him at all for not being interested.

I offered to do it.

[CarRepairer]

Anyway, an idea on a compromise: CA's gadget, instead of defaulting to 0 min wind and 2.5 max wind, instead defaults to whatever values the map provides.

This is how I originally set up the mod options over a year ago - using -1/-1 as default min/max which results in using the map's values. It was then voted to change it.

One ticket of many: http://trac.caspring.org/ticket/1362

You lost sight of the fact that things are set up the way they are now after years of debate and development, not on a whim. I don't blame you for slipping up though, this whole thread is tiring on the mind.

[Gota]

As I understand it,this wind control thing was made because the solars and wind gens in CA are more specialized than in BA which resulted in many maps being either solar or wind gen maps.
To solve this in a more natural way,you could just make it so that the min speed is multiplied by a certain number and the max speed is multiplied by a certain number,to lower the average difference between max and min wind speeds on maps.
This would also mean the maps with 0 wind will still be 0.

[Neddie]

The issue is not who decides the final outcome, that hasn't changed. You do or do not play the map. Outcome decided by the player.

[Licho]

It has been changed, it convinced me to eventually add switch to disable map lua.

Individual engine users can then decide if they want map lua in their release or if they want user to have control (through lobby) or if they want to block it completely because of potential synced code hacks and abuses.

Even with LuaRules off, maps will retain ability to create lua effects, add units (since it does not need luarules) and players still have ability to disable units from lobby.

[Pxtl]

It has been changed, it convinced me to eventually add switch to disable map lua.

Individual engine users can then decide if they want map lua in their release or if they want user to have control (through lobby) or if they want to block it completely because of potential synced code hacks and abuses.

Even with LuaRules off, maps will retain ability to create lua effects, add units (since it does not need luarules) and players still have ability to disable units from lobby.

Couldn't his cause trouble if the added units depend on luarules to function properly? It's probably best, from a gameplay perspective, to take an all-or-nothing approach. Either a map is stripped down to it's bare OTA-like content (features, terrain, etc) or it runs whatever it has.

Now, if there's a warning indicator, that might make sense to include how deep the content is - just units vs. lua rules... but honestly, a "use map stuff" really would make more sense if it were all-or-nothing.

[lurker]

It has been changed, it convinced me to eventually add switch to disable map lua.

Individual engine users can then decide if they want map lua in their release or if they want user to have control (through lobby) or if they want to block it completely because of potential synced code hacks and abuses.

Even with LuaRules off, maps will retain ability to create lua effects, add units (since it does not need luarules) and players still have ability to disable units from lobby.

Oh. You want to disable LuaRules specifically, and not gadgets entirely? Here is how you do it: Make VFS.MAP and VFS.MOD actually work. Make the gadget handler use the relevant mode in LuaRules and LuaGaia. No hacky switches, proper isolation unless they explicitly want to share.

[Forboding Angel]

There's a reason that Evo was designed to work on the same sorts of maps that BA does

[MidKnight]

Why dont you CA folks do maps that are specifically designed for CA? Then you wouldnt really need to bitch about all this shit everywhere.

Make us CA maps, gogogo!

[JohannesH]

Why dont you CA folks do maps that are specifically designed for CA? Then you wouldnt really need to bitch about all this shit everywhere.

Make us CA maps, gogogo!

Me, who hasnt played CA in a year?

[smoth]

why not? who knows maybe it will be a new and exciting creative outlet?