Question for Caydr and other stuff

j5mello · Post by **j5mello** » 06 Nov 2006, 05:14

El capitano i think the point Fang is trying to make is that...
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You know what...
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I had this long post about balance and all this shit and then i looked at the title of this thread and i realized something... this thread has very little to do with balance. So f*ck that subject ive got a better idea or rather a better question:

Caydr why the F*CK do you do what these people tell you to do?
Who made these forumites head of AA balance? You know what i say? F*ck em. F*ck em all. If you wanna make the flash "pwn" instis while the stumpy is "teh suck" against raiders, do it. If you want a 20-strong brawler swarm to be the most frightening sight in AA do it. Sure some people might not like it but guess what? It isn't your problem. It's theirs. They either shut up and deal with it or they move on. You don't have to please everyone. In fact you can't. Its impossible. If you could, we would elect you "Leader of the World" and their would be an unending golden age of happiness with cake and win for all. But, thats a bunch of bullsh*t.

Its your mod do what u want. Screw the speedmetalers, screw the "elite/high-lvl/superduper" players, screw the rushers, the porcers, and everyone else. Do what u think should be done. Im sick of these people here saying that because "they do this" or "they are that" they get to dictate how the game should play. In the real world you know who gets to dictate what happens? The f*cking people in charge, thats who. Thats why no matter what, BF2142 is getting ingame ads, Supcom isn't going to be TA 2, and why every other game dev on planet is going to do what they wanna do. Players have very few choices:

1. Whine about how X or Y or Z is "wrong/imbalanced/stupid/etc." and say you won't play till its fixed.
2. Shutup, play, and try and have some fun.
3. Try it, hate it, move on.

Some people will say that if they whine enough things will change. Well good for you, you spent three months complaing about something to get it changed and now that it has, im sure you'll find something else that you don't agree with. Once you find that new thing to hate, you can start the cycle all over again.

And to all you people who say that Caydr has to do what his players say, i ask you, why? Unless his sole goal is to make every player happy (again thats impossible), have everyone adore him and be the most popular mod, Caydr should do as he sees fit. If you don't like what he does, you can GO F*CK YOURSELF!!! So go ahead Caydr, change the name to what you want. If people actually like this game you could call it Cacapoopoopeepeeshire Extreme!!1!1! and in the end as long as people have fun they will still play.

Just remember you owe no one anything. You do this cause you want to. Its your free time.

Now i leave you with these final words:

1. Fanboys suck major donkey.
2. Smug and LolSquad, continue to disrupt seemingly "serious" or "important" post like this or the WTC thread and destroy that seriousness.
3. Stop defending your opinons like their your children. It's a f*cking game, not a life or death struggle to save mankind.

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 06 Nov 2006, 05:21

"Stop defending your opinons like their your children. It's a f*cking game, not a life or death struggle to save mankind."

This needs to made into some kind of a banner. At the top of the page. There are many things worth dying for. I think a vidio game is not one of them.

pintle · Post by **pintle** » 06 Nov 2006, 05:26

j5mello= made of win

Felix the Cat · Post by **Felix the Cat** » 06 Nov 2006, 05:40

Just because your post is long, doesn't mean it's right.

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 06 Nov 2006, 05:45

Well I read it and its still right!

El Capitano · Post by **El Capitano** » 06 Nov 2006, 08:45

j5mello wrote:El capitano i think the point Fang is trying to make is that...
(bile)

Wow, straw man much? Anyhow, don't worry, everything's going to be fine, I'm just going to give you this nice little horse tranq...

DemO · Post by **DemO** » 06 Nov 2006, 08:51

an unending golden age of happiness with cake and win for all. But, thats a bunch of bullsh*t.

hahahhahahahah, now thats funny.

Deathblane · Post by **Deathblane** » 06 Nov 2006, 13:08

It's quotes like that that make you wish for sigs...

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 06 Nov 2006, 14:12

j5mello wrote: And to all you people who say that Caydr has to listen to his players i ask you, why? Unless his sole goal is to make every player happy (again thats impossible), have everyone adore him and be the most popular mod, Caydr should do as he sees fit. If you don't like what he does, you can GO F*CK YOURSELF!!! So go ahead Caydr, change the name to what you want. If people actually like this game you could call it Cacapoopoopeepeeshire Extreme!!1!1! and in the end as long as people have fun they will still play.

I addressed this issue on smoths site after this (currently down, no idea if it will return) rather brilliant article was posted. There's a difference in listening to users, and doing what users recommend. I'd state that the latter is almost always ALWAYS ALWAYS a bad idea. Most of your users don't know what the goals of your game are, they don't know why you have certain things working the way they do, the just really know that things aren't the way they like them and they want something different, then they come up with their own ideas of how to fix things, and often really their own definitions of what the problem is.

It is important to listen to what users say, what they complain about, and then it's important to decide that they are either right or wrong, and then, if you do indeed perceive a problem, decide how you are going to fix it your own way. You built the project, you know better then anyone what the soul of the project is and you are the only one who can address the problems effectively without pulling some of the design soul away from it.

Every player has their own definition of what balance is and they will want a developer to do to balance a game, while I could level out a long bloated definition of what balance really is, ultimately, the only element that should be important to a game developer is "is this situation what I envisioned and intended for that game" and if not, take steps to address that, if so, tell the person complaining that that is the way it's supposed to be, explain the reason, and tell them to fuck off.

If ultimately you create your vision the way it's supposed to be and people still don't like it because it's boring, fact is the vision just sucked and you need to go back to the drawing board in deciding what makes a game worth playing and what doesn't.

j5mello · Post by **j5mello** » 06 Nov 2006, 18:37

damn that site is still down 4 hours later

anyway... yeah swift i guess when i stated "listen to what they say" i really meant do what they say. I agree completely with what you said. listening is a good idea, doing isn't always. in fact let me edit and rephrase my original post to reflect that

El capt did u even read my post or did u assume that i bad mouthed you throughout? cause i never actually mentioned u at all except in the first sentence. i guess my "clever" writing idea of leaving a piece of my original post didn't go over well. Anyways if you think in anyway i was just attacking you i wasn't. i made a general statement about the state of the AA thread. My entire post had NOTHING to do with balance or your arguements on the subject in any way. My original post (which i deleted) did, and it wasn't even attacking you. But your just assuming that i hate every atom of your existence and that i must bash you...

and plz don't throw around fallacy talk. Im sick of people using those as a way to defeat a person's argument. besides my post can't be straw man since i didn't setup you up to be attacked or even attack you for that matter. Trust me if wanted to involve you, i would have stuck with the standard forum fallacy and went with ad hominem

j5mello · Post by **j5mello** » 06 Nov 2006, 18:53

Yeah yeah its a double sue me...

anyway one last thing i would like to point out is that Caydr has responed twice to this thread. Both had nothing to do with the topic in anyway and all to do with french fries and possible dips. (Off Topic: Frosty Fries are made of win!!! it cannot be denied!!!! For those not in the know a frosty is basically a thick, almost frozen chocolate milkshake its also the only soquid you eat with a fpoon :))

so looking at that i think Caydr is doing what i said. He isn't caring that much.

El Capitano · Post by **El Capitano** » 06 Nov 2006, 21:00

j5mello wrote:El capt did u even read my post

Yes, despite your horrendous butchering of the English language.

or did u assume that i bad mouthed you throughout? cause i never actually mentioned u at all except in the first sentence. i guess my "clever" writing idea of leaving a piece of my original post didn't go over well. Anyways if you think in anyway i was just attacking you i wasn't. i made a general statement about the state of the AA thread. My entire post had NOTHING to do with balance or your arguements on the subject in any way. My original post (which i deleted) did, and it wasn't even attacking you. But your just assuming that i hate every atom of your existence and that i must bash you...

There you go building a straw man again so you can direct your e-peen 5000GTX flamethrower at it. Where did I claim you were attacking me? As far as I could tell, you were too busy flaming the imaginary army of troops who are demanding Caydr build them an ivory tower to live in to bother with little old me.

and plz don't throw around fallacy talk. Im sick of people using those as a way to defeat a person's argument. besides my post can't be straw man since i didn't setup you up to be attacked or even attack you for that matter.

straw man: a weak or sham argument set up to be easily refuted
Nowhere in the definition of strawman does it require that it be aimed at one particular person. You decided to throw a wobbly because you see a huge horde of people making demands of Caydr. I don't see it, so I'm going to ask you to show where all these people are.

Trust me if wanted to involve you, i would have stuck with the standard forum fallacy and went with ad hominem

I find it really funny that you can spell "ad hominem" but not "argument". I don't know why, I just do.

Acidd_UK · Post by **Acidd_UK** » 06 Nov 2006, 21:12

I think Felix the Cat is really Hitler in disguise...

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 06 Nov 2006, 21:41

Listen, evaluate, test - and then maybe implement - but don't sacrifice the vision or the gameplay.

Fang, despite the views of some here, is very good at riding this edge. He listens, but he doesn't usually implement - and he always considers it first. However, he has in the past included suggestions - as they coincide with his vision.

The article Swift refers to, currently online, is overly simplified for the general public. It discounts the outlying case where a contribution of a player may actually coincide with and improve upon the vision of the developer - admittedly rare.

Get a signature on the OSRTS forums, and an avatar here. It is a trade.

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 06 Nov 2006, 21:54

IM trying to understand why El cap is even responding to j5mello.. when the argument j5 is trying to make has nothing to do with any arguments el capitano was trying to make.

And yes not implementing things people suggest is a good way to preserve balance in a mod...

this thread prolly ought to be split into 3 or more threads, one on balance discussion one lamenting AA fanboys and one about french fries...

oh and el capitano.. how can you butcher a language which is a hodgepodge of pretty much every other eurasian language there is...?

Thats like saying you have screwed up your pure breed mutt.. its kinda retarded...

El Capitano · Post by **El Capitano** » 06 Nov 2006, 22:02

Fanger wrote:IM trying to understand why El cap is even responding to j5mello.. when the argument j5 is trying to make has nothing to do with any arguments el capitano was trying to make.

It doesn't mean I can't respond to other points

oh and el capitano.. how can you butcher a language which is a hodgepodge of pretty much every other eurasian language there is...?

Ever heard of a dictionary?

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 06 Nov 2006, 22:34

ever heard of evolution.. whereby words and word use change over time as does grammer.. thus meaning that some misspellings are forgivable.. and you need to be less of a nitpicking bastard..

using someones grammatical mistakes in a INTERNET FORUM to attempt to make yourself seem more intelligent is acting kinda like an asshole..

DONT tell me you dont ever make mistakes occasionally.. this isnt a doctorial thesis, hell its not even a highschool level paper.. some gramatical errors and misspellings are completely within reason.. I hardly think J5mello "butchered" the english language in his post, your just using some of his mistakes to make you look more credible..

Your right it doesnt mean you cant respond to his posts, but IT doesnt make any sense for you to attack him over said posts, are you just on a crusade to refute everyones arguments, because you will find few friends in life if you constantly do that... Some people take a class on rhetoric and discussion and then think they are an expert in constructing and deconstructing arguments.. GO AWAY...

El Capitano · Post by **El Capitano** » 06 Nov 2006, 22:43

Fanger wrote:ever heard of evolution.. whereby words and word use change over time as does grammer.. thus meaning that some misspellings are forgivable.. and you need to be less of a nitpicking bastard..

using someones grammatical mistakes in a INTERNET FORUM to attempt to make yourself seem more intelligent is acting kinda like an asshole..

Well boo-hoo. The problem at the moment is that everybody seems to use slightly different spelling and grammar and nobody seems to be evolving the language in a sensible direction. It actually makes it harder to read, thus takes longer, thus is more likely to be a waste of time. It's really not that hard to use proper English.

DONT tell me you dont ever make mistakes occasionally.. this isnt a doctorial thesis, hell its not even a highschool level paper.. some gramatical errors and misspellings are completely within reason.. I hardly think J5mello "butchered" the english language in his post, your just using some of his mistakes to make you look more credible..

He wasn't just making some mistakes, they're all over his posts. As for mistakes, yes I make them, but I will probably make less mistakes in this entire thread than are in that one paragraph of yours that I am quoting.

Your right it doesnt mean you cant respond to his posts, but IT doesnt make any sense for you to attack him over said posts, are you just on a crusade to refute everyones arguments,

If I think something is wrong, I will post it. I don't go for AOL-style "me too" posts, so of course you'll almost always see me post a counter-argument, unless I'm actually adding to/clarifying somebody else's point.

because you will find few friends in life if you constantly do that... Some people take a class on rhetoric and discussion and then think they are an expert in constructing and deconstructing arguments.. GO AWAY...

I have enough friends, thanks, so please leave my personal life out of this. Oh, and no, I won't go away, listening to the bile in your posts from me disagreeing with you is plenty enough to keep me here.

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 06 Nov 2006, 23:06

aha... and I suppose you use Tab while talking as well... good man, make sure you use quotations too..

El Capitano · Post by **El Capitano** » 06 Nov 2006, 23:09

Fanger wrote:aha... and I suppose you use Tab while talking as well... good man, make sure you use quotations too..

I'll make sure to.

Spring RTS Engine

Question for Caydr and other stuff