Absolute Annihilation: Spring 1.46
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If flashes weren't worth massing, what use would they have? They are for swarm tactics!
*Gasp!* What if he starts mixing up his forces too! Guess its down to who plays better and responds to new threats/tactics faster. If you can't deal with a balanced enemy force, maybe you haven't expanded your horizons enough.
Also, guess what happens if you mix in an artillary or two. You don't have to get slaughtered by LLT's or HLT's anymore since you can take them out at greater range! Plus they are good at softening up the slower mobiles.
You know, maybe you could try building more than one type of unit at once. Queu up some instigators and raiders WITH the levelers. Then when the flashes come you can pawn them with a couple levelers, when his stumpies roll in, pull them back and use your raiders and instigators.-Revert the leveller/warrior and exploiter to normal damages against lvl1 units, and maybe boost them if necessary, its silly having people mass flashes, then you send 3 levellers and kill them all then your levellers suck against anything else and get owned by stumpies, and when you stop building them they make flashes again etc etc etc
*Gasp!* What if he starts mixing up his forces too! Guess its down to who plays better and responds to new threats/tactics faster. If you can't deal with a balanced enemy force, maybe you haven't expanded your horizons enough.
Also, guess what happens if you mix in an artillary or two. You don't have to get slaughtered by LLT's or HLT's anymore since you can take them out at greater range! Plus they are good at softening up the slower mobiles.
You do realize this is the Core equivalent of the mobile tacnuke? Just instead of one big hit, which is better at dealing with the large Core baddies, its many smaller hits which are better at dealing with arm swarms.i have to ask this... is it me or are catapults extremely good?
They have the ability to survive almost anything when closed, including direct nuke hits. Ambushers also have the ability to cloak for 40 energy and be 5 times tougher when buried, while Toasters are 10 times as tough when buried. Hard to hit what you can't see; and you tell me how many nukes, hawks/vamps, bombers, Krogoth/Orcone head laser shots, artillary shots, bertha/vulcan/int/buzz hits, crawling bombs, skuttles, Liche bombs, or seconds of bombardment from a Krow it would take to kill 48000hp of a closed toaster (Ambusher is 22500 when buried).As for Krogothe's remark about toasters.
I see them used in combat.
But thet don't have a huge advantage against punishers, while there are lvl2.
What is the diffrence between them exept he can shoot one square further?
IF the Instigators got a boost to the turret turn rate, that would solve alot of problems with it.
Flashes have rate of fire and a wide area of hits, and I believe Caydr made this comment in the past,
"A flash/peewee can miss alot of shots and still maintain high damage , but the AK/Instigator lose a signifigant ammount of damage if they miss even 1 shot."
#1? Allowing the Instigator to have a quicker reaction time so it can stay on target will be alot bigger boost than having to nerf the Flash or do a bunch of other things that can ruin the delicate balence already present.
Anyways, on another idea completely since you guys were mentioning the Pop-up LVL2 turrets being able to withstand tons of damage while concealed.
#2? What if there was a small building unit that could be created that worked as a transport, basically a bomb shelter if you will that could load say 4-5 units like a standard transport and be nuke resistant like the other popups, would this be a silly thing to have? or could it be used as a swarm stopper by loading enemy units and making them completely ineffective.
It would have to be fairly short range to be used properly, and to keep from being exploited.
On more than 1 occasion I've seen other players use transports in their assaults to load enemy units and then send them back to the enemy as a bomb or just hold on to them for safe keeping.
Just an idea I thought I would throw out to you guys.
#3? is there a reason that there are no Capture units besides the commander in AA? something that could freeze a unit and then capture/reclaim them on the field. Too whorish?
Flashes have rate of fire and a wide area of hits, and I believe Caydr made this comment in the past,
"A flash/peewee can miss alot of shots and still maintain high damage , but the AK/Instigator lose a signifigant ammount of damage if they miss even 1 shot."
#1? Allowing the Instigator to have a quicker reaction time so it can stay on target will be alot bigger boost than having to nerf the Flash or do a bunch of other things that can ruin the delicate balence already present.
Anyways, on another idea completely since you guys were mentioning the Pop-up LVL2 turrets being able to withstand tons of damage while concealed.
#2? What if there was a small building unit that could be created that worked as a transport, basically a bomb shelter if you will that could load say 4-5 units like a standard transport and be nuke resistant like the other popups, would this be a silly thing to have? or could it be used as a swarm stopper by loading enemy units and making them completely ineffective.
It would have to be fairly short range to be used properly, and to keep from being exploited.
On more than 1 occasion I've seen other players use transports in their assaults to load enemy units and then send them back to the enemy as a bomb or just hold on to them for safe keeping.
Just an idea I thought I would throw out to you guys.
#3? is there a reason that there are no Capture units besides the commander in AA? something that could freeze a unit and then capture/reclaim them on the field. Too whorish?
about the flashes vs Gators (instigators)
a flash cost 109 metal while a gator costs 124 metal
that is 13,8 % more, but the flash is faster, aims faster, does more dmg/sec, is not bugged.
True the gator has a tiny bit more hp, but that's the only advantage the gator has.
Imo
the aiming speed of both should be the same
the dmg/sec should be thse same
cost could stay like they are
HP stay like they are
That will make flashes more easy spammable, as they cost less, but you need more of them anyway to kill the fewer gators, which in turn have less firepower per metal spent
EDIT
why reinvent the wheel, this mod is based on UH, which was considered "nearly" balanced, why not steal those stats? (for the flash/gator)
a flash cost 109 metal while a gator costs 124 metal
that is 13,8 % more, but the flash is faster, aims faster, does more dmg/sec, is not bugged.
True the gator has a tiny bit more hp, but that's the only advantage the gator has.
Imo
the aiming speed of both should be the same
the dmg/sec should be thse same
cost could stay like they are
HP stay like they are
That will make flashes more easy spammable, as they cost less, but you need more of them anyway to kill the fewer gators, which in turn have less firepower per metal spent
EDIT
why reinvent the wheel, this mod is based on UH, which was considered "nearly" balanced, why not steal those stats? (for the flash/gator)
it would probaly only be a minor change though..Das Bruce wrote:That wouldn't necissarily balance them against other units though, alot has changed since UH.NOiZE wrote:why reinvent the wheel, this mod is based on UH, which was considered "nearly" balanced, why not steal those stats? (for the flash/gator)
if that is the cores tactical nuke, nothing is tactical about it.
It swarms the battlefield at long range with highly powered rockets. that kill turtles in 2 salvo's.
btw, this unit is not the cores "tactical nuke" this is the cores version of the Turtle or Vanguard. Unlike the turtle this units only possible POSSIBLE downfall is its reload rate, it takes 25 seconds i believe to reload, but who cares? it just shot out 20 missiles in 2 seconds. that kill most defensive structures and units in 5 missile.
but its far to quick moving, hell lvl 1 units have trouble chasing it.
I dont think this unit deserves High armor+high speed + high range +high dmg, somethings gotta change. I dont know if price raising would be that useful either, all it takes is 1 of the units to open up ANY defenses you want, and you dont have to be in fear of raider units trying to chase it down, it will run up any hill you want or run back to defensive units asap.
I just saw big steve use 2 of them to devestate the entire north side of the enemy front. then we had a little war of turtles vs catapults, The turtles couldnt get enough shots in before having the catapults run out of range. then run back into range, fire again then run away again!
Far to fast of a unit.
If they are going to be so "tactical" then they have to have a down fall,
Like i said my Snipers hit 1 with 5 hits and it didnt die :/ that was annoying. The snipers were the only way to get up close to them and fight since anything i tried to send in got a rocket salvo.
Trust me do some tests.
It swarms the battlefield at long range with highly powered rockets. that kill turtles in 2 salvo's.
btw, this unit is not the cores "tactical nuke" this is the cores version of the Turtle or Vanguard. Unlike the turtle this units only possible POSSIBLE downfall is its reload rate, it takes 25 seconds i believe to reload, but who cares? it just shot out 20 missiles in 2 seconds. that kill most defensive structures and units in 5 missile.
but its far to quick moving, hell lvl 1 units have trouble chasing it.
I dont think this unit deserves High armor+high speed + high range +high dmg, somethings gotta change. I dont know if price raising would be that useful either, all it takes is 1 of the units to open up ANY defenses you want, and you dont have to be in fear of raider units trying to chase it down, it will run up any hill you want or run back to defensive units asap.
I just saw big steve use 2 of them to devestate the entire north side of the enemy front. then we had a little war of turtles vs catapults, The turtles couldnt get enough shots in before having the catapults run out of range. then run back into range, fire again then run away again!
Far to fast of a unit.
If they are going to be so "tactical" then they have to have a down fall,
Like i said my Snipers hit 1 with 5 hits and it didnt die :/ that was annoying. The snipers were the only way to get up close to them and fight since anything i tried to send in got a rocket salvo.
Trust me do some tests.
Dont patronize me. Actually, why dont you cram your sarcasm up your ass while youre at it?Archangel of Death wrote:You know, maybe you could try building more than one type of unit at once. Queu up some instigators and raiders WITH the levelers. Then when the flashes come you can pawn them with a couple levelers, when his stumpies roll in, pull them back and use your raiders and instigators.
*Gasp!* What if he starts mixing up his forces too! Guess its down to who plays better and responds to new threats/tactics faster. If you can't deal with a balanced enemy force, maybe you haven't expanded your horizons enough.
Also, guess what happens if you mix in an artillary or two. You don't have to get slaughtered by LLT's or HLT's anymore since you can take them out at greater range! Plus they are good at softening up the slower mobiles.
Giving a unit a huge advantage against other few units (as opposed to a larger group) doesnt really improve gameplay and actually makes it less fun IMO. Now we all gotta mass exploiters and keep a leveller reserve just in case they might build a few flashes, since anything else gets owned hard by them. I think If flashes are overpowered, just nerf them instead...
I also think instigators could do with a turret speed and accuracy increase...
The Turtle is a Core unit?
I only ever paly Core and I can't believe I haven't ever seen it =-o
I think Levellers are fine personally; they're not just good agaisnt flashes, but agaisnt L1 units in general with thier scatter effect. They're balanced out by their relatively high cost and their crazy slowness, I think...

I think Levellers are fine personally; they're not just good agaisnt flashes, but agaisnt L1 units in general with thier scatter effect. They're balanced out by their relatively high cost and their crazy slowness, I think...
yeah levellers are fine, but making units super-counters instead of fixing blatantly overpowered ones is stupid... Its like giving merls nukes instead of rockets by accident and instead of fixing them we just make it so con kbots reclaim can them in 0.001s, then go "Theyre overpowered and everyone knows it!, but since we have con-kbots to counter them everythings just fine! Build con-kbots on your armies and its all good!"
Last edited by krogothe on 03 Mar 2006, 20:04, edited 1 time in total.
meh.
make flashes slightly weaker
make gators slightly stronger
so flash = gator
BUT flash is cheaper
this means ARM still have a early game advantage
but that CORE can counter it with their own unit, or attack back.
it would be a lot fairer
also consider reducing the levellers rate of fire? its pretty insane although it does cost a lot
make flashes slightly weaker
make gators slightly stronger
so flash = gator
BUT flash is cheaper
this means ARM still have a early game advantage
but that CORE can counter it with their own unit, or attack back.
it would be a lot fairer
also consider reducing the levellers rate of fire? its pretty insane although it does cost a lot
journier... you letf out a few "minor detaails" with regards to your post about catapults
I used 2 catapults + 2 can + 1 karganeth + 1 krogtarr to destroy the northern base
The catapults had 1.2 experience as I microed them for sometime
"turtles" fire faster do less damage... but have more hp and are all terrain
however saying that... catapults do seem a little overpowered with the huge range, volume of rockets, and massive damage each rocket can cause.
I used 2 catapults + 2 can + 1 karganeth + 1 krogtarr to destroy the northern base
The catapults had 1.2 experience as I microed them for sometime
"turtles" fire faster do less damage... but have more hp and are all terrain
however saying that... catapults do seem a little overpowered with the huge range, volume of rockets, and massive damage each rocket can cause.
I said the [Catapult] is the cores version of the turtle.Dragon45 wrote:The Turtle is a Core unit?I only ever paly (play) Core and I can't believe I haven't ever seen it =-o
read my post again buddy, try not to be a smart ass, before you actually read the post correctly kthx. Proof reading skills ftw.
and on to what steve wrote.
yea steve that too :) those other units were helpin your catapults, but yea, I think im changing to core for a few games to test how oppresive those catapults are.
BTW I micro my turtles also, but it sorta doesnt help when they move so slow.
edit steve. watched the replay, and the catapults cleared the path before you had anything else around to stomp with :)
I suspect the capture k-bots (Tick & Cammando & Nautilus) were taken out because of the fact it's currently impossible to allow a unit to capture but not be allowed to assist in construction. I wouldn't mind if it took a long time to capture (build speed decreased).MR.D wrote:Just an idea I thought I would throw out to you guys.
#3? is there a reason that there are no Capture units besides the commander in AA? something that could freeze a unit and then capture/reclaim them on the field. Too whorish?
i dont need to watch the replay... I played the game remember? :)
My catapults stomped (with assistance from cans kargy etc) 2 punishers... scary... a clump of level1 with a couple of pyros mixed in... yikes! and a couple of hltts and a moho extractor/shooter thing.... all this took about 10 minutes - they are sooo slow to reaload, apart from the moho thing everything was level1 vs level3, they should have been stomped.
Anyway I really just dont care to be honest Id pick "turtles" over catapults anytime... atv's ftw!
My catapults stomped (with assistance from cans kargy etc) 2 punishers... scary... a clump of level1 with a couple of pyros mixed in... yikes! and a couple of hltts and a moho extractor/shooter thing.... all this took about 10 minutes - they are sooo slow to reaload, apart from the moho thing everything was level1 vs level3, they should have been stomped.
Anyway I really just dont care to be honest Id pick "turtles" over catapults anytime... atv's ftw!
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