VTOL verticle takeoff and landing = Airplains. The first thing we tred doing was set a default attack damadge to VTOL but this didnt work for some odd reason or annother. The listing of air units in our holly oppinion is good (AND ALSO WORKS PERFECTLY!)
+the shear idea of MORE VTOL units in the game sadens me. As far as i know there is NO plans of ever adding more VTOL units in XTA. Quite frankly why would annyone want to!
I ahve no plans to mess around with the armour.txt for this at this point.****IF IT NOT BROKE DONT FIX IT!****
I admit that some proposed changes i posted of our work are some what in there extremities. And pin point changes is crusial for the furte of XTA.
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-------------------------------------Off subject----------------------------------
************************************************************
Myg is now playing more and devoting more time to Ka-Plowing, the way it should be.However Barto is very bussey theses days, but rejoice IM BACK. (but i also suck do 2lack of practice lol)
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XTA
Moderator: Moderators
-
PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
[KnoX]ElementalGizmo wrote:VTOL verticle takeoff and landing = Airplains. The first thing we tred doing was set a default attack damadge to VTOL but this didnt work for some odd reason or annother. The listing of air units in our holly oppinion is good (AND ALSO WORKS PERFECTLY!)
+the shear idea of MORE VTOL units in the game sadens me. As far as i know there is NO plans of ever adding more VTOL units in XTA. Quite frankly why would annyone want to!
...
That seems to be in reply to me but i have little idea what you are talking about.It is broken![KnoX]ElementalGizmo wrote:...****IF IT NOT BROKE DONT FIX IT!****
...
If it hapens to work "PERFECTLY" IT'S SOLELY BECAUSE THE SPRING ENGINE IS BROKEN AS WELL AND WILL PROBABLY STOP WORKING AS SOON AS THE ENGINE GETS FIXED (if it ever get fixed at all).
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
Weapons work like this:
file armor.txt:
The definition of some weapon:
The engine checks the file "armor.txt" for an entry named "airplanes" and that weapons should give 100 dmg to all units except all units that are inside the category "airplanes" in armor.txt.
In old TA, you could assign specific damages to weapons by linking to entries in armor.txt or directly to the name of units. In Spring that doesn't work anymore, rightfully so i say. I have actually tested it, trying to make a weapon deal a specific damage by linking it to buldogs by name. Doesn't work.
However, in XTA, there was no category named ARMBRAWL (which is the name of Brawlers) but all AA weapons had* reference to ARMBRAWL instead of an entry in armor.txt that had all the airplanes. That should have not work but it seemed to work. My guess is that the engine goes search the entries in armor.txt, finds the one that has the ARMBRAWL unit in it and uses that entry.
You can find wiki info on it here:
http://taspring.clan-sy.com/wiki/Mod_Development:Armor
Although it does not mentions this bug/exception the engine has.
As far as i know, NOIZE corrected that when he was taking care of XTA.
file armor.txt:
Code: Select all
[airplanes]
{
brawler=13; //the number is irelevant
storm=13;
peeper=13;
}Code: Select all
...
...
[damage]
{
default=100;
airplanes=20;
}In old TA, you could assign specific damages to weapons by linking to entries in armor.txt or directly to the name of units. In Spring that doesn't work anymore, rightfully so i say. I have actually tested it, trying to make a weapon deal a specific damage by linking it to buldogs by name. Doesn't work.
However, in XTA, there was no category named ARMBRAWL (which is the name of Brawlers) but all AA weapons had* reference to ARMBRAWL instead of an entry in armor.txt that had all the airplanes. That should have not work but it seemed to work. My guess is that the engine goes search the entries in armor.txt, finds the one that has the ARMBRAWL unit in it and uses that entry.
You can find wiki info on it here:
http://taspring.clan-sy.com/wiki/Mod_Development:Armor
Although it does not mentions this bug/exception the engine has.
As far as i know, NOIZE corrected that when he was taking care of XTA.
I liked 1v0ry_k1ng's summation of current XTA balance. Particularly more armour for the Commander and nerfed zippers.
These things are waaaay too unforgiving for noobs. And you really should be giving them more of a chance. It's not like there are really powerful defences that'll save them for playing badly anyway. No point in kicking them while they're down or they'll just go play AA.
These things are waaaay too unforgiving for noobs. And you really should be giving them more of a chance. It's not like there are really powerful defences that'll save them for playing badly anyway. No point in kicking them while they're down or they'll just go play AA.
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1v0ry_k1ng
- Posts: 4656
- Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 10:24
XTA ftwlol!!
Okay, sorry gizmo I wont use that term anymore I guess it is pretty crude! my idea for loading screen tips ^^ only reason i can play EE!
okay, that changelog seemed pretty good. I totally agree with myg that pyros DO NOT need tuning down.. they are in no way over powered and EASILY easily countered by longer range units. they already have low hp for a l2 unit and fall easy pray to crawling bombs, gunships, hllts etc.. they are fast, but by the time they are being built, defences are up and they generally operate in frontal assault anyhow. Ive played XTA longtime and THE LAST unit I have a problem with is the pyro. but the spider.. OooOoh spiders..lol im not suprised to find you defending them myg *freindly glare* but any unit which is A) infallably effective vs AIR AND LAND b) allows a 200 metal unit to beat a 1200 metal unit, which only costs 400 odd metal is OP. 30% less damage vs air? THEY SHOULDNT TARGET AIR. stationary planes is mid air LOOK SO DUMB: THEY WOULD CRASH. it just dosnt make sense, dude.
cans still suck
bombers may be good at attacking single targets, but they will only survive one pass if they waste so much time turning about, and with all that turning they will have lolable DPS and dude gunships just do it so much better. to MAKE BOMBERS GOOD, they should fly high so regular AA is pretty ineffective. low dps, but hard to take out. BUT GET RIPPED BY FIGHTERS!
hence, they can survive multiple passes, doing the same low dps and people MIGHT use them and use air feilds to build fighters INSTEAD OF <3<3 L1 gunships <3<3.
GUNSHIPS are in no way OP in xta btw... a gunship rush is laughably beaten (im taking 40+ gunships) by 10 l1 fighters, or 5 l2 fighters, because
[i] Gunships on patrol (ie attack on route) target the fighters before the ground units, hence dont attack the ground AT ALL and instead dance about the fighers doing nothing! THAT EASY![/i]
new flak sounds bangin.
please do NOT nerf EITHER gunship, as atm they are perfect! deadly in the right situation, useless if the opposing player expects it and builds oh.. 1 fighter.
ZIPPERS are generaly not a good idea for an l1 unit, they ENCOURAGE the stupid micro and rush that all noobs and me and some pros hate. I dont like AA but they have the right idea: make it a cheap l2 unit: THEN PEOPLE MIGHT USE PEEWEES!! and then they will be used to harass! not completely spank 50 secs in. they would be far more useful as a 2000 buildtime l2 unit. they do afterall, own. bigsteve plus a zipper once resulted in half a team (3 seperate players) being fed their keyboard. zippers make l1 suck.
more armour for comm = 1) less gunship sniping on comm 2) more freindly fo' noobs.
there is NO point just toning up all the morties stats 20%, including its cost because cost for power, it will still suck by the exact same ratio. I loved them as they were.. to make them effective, do NOT touch their stats, but reduce their buildtime by 30-40%.. then, they will be easier to build quickly and swarm, meaning late game core players will have larges bases of morties at the back of armies as they can be built up fast. this also makes them diffrent to the dominator, a more sniper style unit for single targets. horde of morties can fire over a weak l1 army to make it an own l1 army. and since their stats dont change, they AINT OP :) and every core player WANTS to use them.. its just they dont have the factory time.
missle units toned = OLD B
this may sound odd, but can you leave the missle towers at the 54 dps? because then they remain useful vs ground, which is important Vs early zippers etc.
tr2=Team%i(%s) has been spanked;
tr2=Team%i(%s): OH YOU DIDNT KNOW! //(rock quote ^^)
tr2=Team%i(%s) needs to meet someone
l2 bombers are FINE, they are own enough to negate the probs I listed earlier.
dude: ANTI AIR SHIPS OOOOOOOOWN Ive seen myg use one to beat a l2 cruiser 1v1, and they completely destroy all air. can somthing be done about this? I know its the "anti air ship" but dude, one can destroy 20 atlas's passing overhead one of which carried my comm, and beat the 2nd hardest ship 1v1. they own ultra bad and I thought the main counter to sea (which you dont have) is air, so the main ship of the line shouldnt be able to pick up 20 gunships and spin then headfirst into a wall.
can atlas have 2x hp? with the obvious increase in cost? not strictly balance, but they get knocked by TWO missles, which means a) no combat air drops b) one passing for more than 1.5 seconds in range of a missle tower is ALWAYS destroyed usually carring my comm
<3<3 air <3<3
the nuke is so difficult to use vs players of skill, and it only comes into play in stalemates, so it needs porc ending power.
I am 100% against even touching the popup, its completely fine in my oppinion. its accurate, but its so easily countered early game, and so outclassed late game, it dosnt matter unless your playing the game on default resolution without the keyboard "omg how u place windgens so fast" because one early push and that player lose 1200 metal which early game is much like an attractive girl offering to buy you a drink, and then a hulking man in tight breeches walking over, taking it out her hand and tipping it over you: GAME_OVER
is there any other changes? to, of for example
+ torpedo bombers
+peewees + aks
+V vs kbot
+making fighters fast enough not to be shot down instantly by AAA: they cant hurt ground units effectively so they should be able to dodge crasher missles X% of the time so they can raid atlas trains etc over enemy territory.
+ making the core l3 viper somthing worth building. it currently costs two arms and a spleen (4000 metal) and fire a very irregular, popup ranged sniped laser which moves really slow and misses moving units at any range greater than a missle tower.
oh dude, wall of text. I need to meet someone. Love live XTA <3
okay, that changelog seemed pretty good. I totally agree with myg that pyros DO NOT need tuning down.. they are in no way over powered and EASILY easily countered by longer range units. they already have low hp for a l2 unit and fall easy pray to crawling bombs, gunships, hllts etc.. they are fast, but by the time they are being built, defences are up and they generally operate in frontal assault anyhow. Ive played XTA longtime and THE LAST unit I have a problem with is the pyro. but the spider.. OooOoh spiders..lol im not suprised to find you defending them myg *freindly glare* but any unit which is A) infallably effective vs AIR AND LAND b) allows a 200 metal unit to beat a 1200 metal unit, which only costs 400 odd metal is OP. 30% less damage vs air? THEY SHOULDNT TARGET AIR. stationary planes is mid air LOOK SO DUMB: THEY WOULD CRASH. it just dosnt make sense, dude.
cans still suck
bombers may be good at attacking single targets, but they will only survive one pass if they waste so much time turning about, and with all that turning they will have lolable DPS and dude gunships just do it so much better. to MAKE BOMBERS GOOD, they should fly high so regular AA is pretty ineffective. low dps, but hard to take out. BUT GET RIPPED BY FIGHTERS!
hence, they can survive multiple passes, doing the same low dps and people MIGHT use them and use air feilds to build fighters INSTEAD OF <3<3 L1 gunships <3<3.
GUNSHIPS are in no way OP in xta btw... a gunship rush is laughably beaten (im taking 40+ gunships) by 10 l1 fighters, or 5 l2 fighters, because
[i] Gunships on patrol (ie attack on route) target the fighters before the ground units, hence dont attack the ground AT ALL and instead dance about the fighers doing nothing! THAT EASY![/i]
new flak sounds bangin.
please do NOT nerf EITHER gunship, as atm they are perfect! deadly in the right situation, useless if the opposing player expects it and builds oh.. 1 fighter.
ZIPPERS are generaly not a good idea for an l1 unit, they ENCOURAGE the stupid micro and rush that all noobs and me and some pros hate. I dont like AA but they have the right idea: make it a cheap l2 unit: THEN PEOPLE MIGHT USE PEEWEES!! and then they will be used to harass! not completely spank 50 secs in. they would be far more useful as a 2000 buildtime l2 unit. they do afterall, own. bigsteve plus a zipper once resulted in half a team (3 seperate players) being fed their keyboard. zippers make l1 suck.
more armour for comm = 1) less gunship sniping on comm 2) more freindly fo' noobs.
there is NO point just toning up all the morties stats 20%, including its cost because cost for power, it will still suck by the exact same ratio. I loved them as they were.. to make them effective, do NOT touch their stats, but reduce their buildtime by 30-40%.. then, they will be easier to build quickly and swarm, meaning late game core players will have larges bases of morties at the back of armies as they can be built up fast. this also makes them diffrent to the dominator, a more sniper style unit for single targets. horde of morties can fire over a weak l1 army to make it an own l1 army. and since their stats dont change, they AINT OP :) and every core player WANTS to use them.. its just they dont have the factory time.
missle units toned = OLD B
this may sound odd, but can you leave the missle towers at the 54 dps? because then they remain useful vs ground, which is important Vs early zippers etc.
tr2=Team%i(%s) has been spanked;
tr2=Team%i(%s): OH YOU DIDNT KNOW! //(rock quote ^^)
tr2=Team%i(%s) needs to meet someone
l2 bombers are FINE, they are own enough to negate the probs I listed earlier.
dude: ANTI AIR SHIPS OOOOOOOOWN Ive seen myg use one to beat a l2 cruiser 1v1, and they completely destroy all air. can somthing be done about this? I know its the "anti air ship" but dude, one can destroy 20 atlas's passing overhead one of which carried my comm, and beat the 2nd hardest ship 1v1. they own ultra bad and I thought the main counter to sea (which you dont have) is air, so the main ship of the line shouldnt be able to pick up 20 gunships and spin then headfirst into a wall.
can atlas have 2x hp? with the obvious increase in cost? not strictly balance, but they get knocked by TWO missles, which means a) no combat air drops b) one passing for more than 1.5 seconds in range of a missle tower is ALWAYS destroyed usually carring my comm
<3<3 air <3<3
the nuke is so difficult to use vs players of skill, and it only comes into play in stalemates, so it needs porc ending power.
I am 100% against even touching the popup, its completely fine in my oppinion. its accurate, but its so easily countered early game, and so outclassed late game, it dosnt matter unless your playing the game on default resolution without the keyboard "omg how u place windgens so fast" because one early push and that player lose 1200 metal which early game is much like an attractive girl offering to buy you a drink, and then a hulking man in tight breeches walking over, taking it out her hand and tipping it over you: GAME_OVER
is there any other changes? to, of for example
+ torpedo bombers
+peewees + aks
+V vs kbot
+making fighters fast enough not to be shot down instantly by AAA: they cant hurt ground units effectively so they should be able to dodge crasher missles X% of the time so they can raid atlas trains etc over enemy territory.
+ making the core l3 viper somthing worth building. it currently costs two arms and a spleen (4000 metal) and fire a very irregular, popup ranged sniped laser which moves really slow and misses moving units at any range greater than a missle tower.
oh dude, wall of text. I need to meet someone. Love live XTA <3
-
FoeOfTheBee
- Posts: 557
- Joined: 12 May 2005, 18:26
-
PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
From 15-4-06:Noruas wrote:he didnt...As far as i know, NOIZE corrected that when he was taking care of XTA.
I first found out about this problem because of my mod editor not importing correctly all specific damages in XTA. That was why i asked for that fix.NOiZE wrote:Time for a Release:
Code: Select all
V5.5 ... - Fixed up Armor.txt and specific damages in weapons.tdf so they load correctly in paulo's mod editor ...
However... This is really odd...
XTA 5
Armor.txt
Code: Select all
[LandAir]
{
ARMTHUND=99;
ARMBRAWL=99;
ARMPEEP=99;
...
}
[MINES]
{
...
}
[COMMANDER]
{
...
}Code: Select all
[ARMAAS_WEAPON1]
{
...
[DAMAGE]
{
default=40;
ARMBRAWL=100;
}
}XTA 5.5
(After the suposed fix)
Armor.txt
Code: Select all
[LandAir]
{
ARMTHUND=99;
ARMBRAWL=99;
ARMPEEP=99;
...
}
[MINES]
{
...
}
[COMMANDER]
{
...
}
[ARMBRAWL]
{
ARMBRAWL=13;
}
[CORPYRO]
{
...
}Code: Select all
[ARMAAS_WEAPON1]
{
...
[DAMAGE]
{
default=40;
ARMBRAWL=100;
}
}Basically, all AA weapons would now be doing the specific increased damages only to brawlers and all other planes would be receiving default dmg...
If that is not what was hapening, then the engine is even more broken...
XTA 7
Armor.txt
Code: Select all
[LandAir]
{
ARMTHUND=99;
ARMBRAWL=99;
ARMPEEP=99;
...
}
[MINES]
{
...
}
[COMMANDER]
{
...
}
[CORPYRO]
{
...
}Code: Select all
[ARMAAS_WEAPON1]
{
...
[DAMAGE]
{
default=40;
ARMBRAWL=100;
}
}im not sure if that "bug" you are talking about is really a bug.
i think it was just flexibility.
you are able to specify the damage in armor, OR, in the weapon tdf.
But i think you are talking about something else aswell.. . about values in armor.txt not aplying correctly?..
didnt get it.
so.. what about:
Defenses are DEFENSES.
Units are OFFENSIVE*
is that as defenses should be designed?
what paulada says about the popup being an offensive unit..
actually convinces me, it IS, an offensive unit, but i think its too effective,and should be more of a risk to deploy it.
but what you guys think?
i think it was just flexibility.
you are able to specify the damage in armor, OR, in the weapon tdf.
But i think you are talking about something else aswell.. . about values in armor.txt not aplying correctly?..
didnt get it.
so.. what about:
Defenses are DEFENSES.
Units are OFFENSIVE*
is that as defenses should be designed?
what paulada says about the popup being an offensive unit..
actually convinces me, it IS, an offensive unit, but i think its too effective,and should be more of a risk to deploy it.
but what you guys think?
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1v0ry_k1ng
- Posts: 4656
- Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 10:24
That isn't the way to address the issue, however. You're relying upon an illogical (In the context of XTA) flaw in unit design to fix something that should be addressed in the mod itself. If gunships are so powerful that they need to do something insane to be balanced, something is wrong with gunships - and I agree that something is wrong with gunships in XTA, a chief reason why I play E&E instead these days.1v0ry_k1ng wrote:no, that the planes distract them is good, VERY GOOD. it means fighters are effective vs gunship swarms, which otherwise ruin late gameNoruas wrote:Well, we can make where Gunships wont fire at all at other planes... so when they patrol, they dont get busy.
but seriously, what is specifically wrong with them?-
1v0ry_k1ng
- Posts: 4656
- Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 10:24
they behave like a combat unit in terms of movement (they can be controlled so they do not fly in arcs, over AAA, and microed past AAA), but they are also very fast and hence can attack ANYWHERE.
the problem with gunships is, XTA players still beleive that fighters are not the primary counter to gunships. once you have fighters, you will not be troubled by gunships, at all. stationary AAA cant be everywhere but fighters can. gunship balance is fine.
the problem with gunships is, XTA players still beleive that fighters are not the primary counter to gunships. once you have fighters, you will not be troubled by gunships, at all. stationary AAA cant be everywhere but fighters can. gunship balance is fine.
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Dead.Rabit
- Posts: 264
- Joined: 03 Sep 2005, 04:28
well i guess this is just addition of ideas.
-please bare in mind i havnt played in a long long time-
ive noticed that kbots have a very slow turning speed when it comes to building structures. its nothing more then an annoyance but i was wondering because this seems to be the place to write that.
the metal makers ( i forget what theyre called) there is no advantage to having the lvl 2 version. and as t turns out the lvl 2 version is just putting all of your eggs into 1 basket. whereas having 15 smaller ones. you can spread them out and have alot more control and even energy when you set all 15 to metal maker AI. i'm just saying that maybe there should be an advantage to having 1 super metal maker over 15 smaller ones.
hovercraft are only really worthwhile for the anti air and the transport which arent terribly great either. maybe the cost of the factory could be reduced to even this out a little bit then sleightly raise the price of all the hovercraft it builds.
it would be kind of useful though unnecesary if the commander had some form of AA defense. the D-Gun is too slow to hit them. maybe like a lvl 1 missile turret. contravercially. let the commander build the turrets so that it can defend itself. much in the way that dragons teath are used. the comm seems to be overly targeted by the Air rushers.
there seems to be alot of rushes with zippers etc recently. could they be turned down in effectiveness against things like moho mines. because theirs no way to defend against its speed in early game, also no way of defending all moho's on some maps. where theyre so spread that there is a need for 1 turret per mine.
torpedo bombers should be alot more effective against ships and maybe have a (forget the name) underwater radar aswell. currently gunships are better at taking out ships imho.
lvl 1 rocket troops are being a bit overly exploited. for their range. maybe make it so that theyre are a bit slower then other units so that they can be caught. =]
i would say. the game of XTA is pretty good as is. however there are just some balencing issues, and some units that have lost all point to them.
thanksfor reading D.R
-please bare in mind i havnt played in a long long time-
ive noticed that kbots have a very slow turning speed when it comes to building structures. its nothing more then an annoyance but i was wondering because this seems to be the place to write that.
the metal makers ( i forget what theyre called) there is no advantage to having the lvl 2 version. and as t turns out the lvl 2 version is just putting all of your eggs into 1 basket. whereas having 15 smaller ones. you can spread them out and have alot more control and even energy when you set all 15 to metal maker AI. i'm just saying that maybe there should be an advantage to having 1 super metal maker over 15 smaller ones.
hovercraft are only really worthwhile for the anti air and the transport which arent terribly great either. maybe the cost of the factory could be reduced to even this out a little bit then sleightly raise the price of all the hovercraft it builds.
it would be kind of useful though unnecesary if the commander had some form of AA defense. the D-Gun is too slow to hit them. maybe like a lvl 1 missile turret. contravercially. let the commander build the turrets so that it can defend itself. much in the way that dragons teath are used. the comm seems to be overly targeted by the Air rushers.
there seems to be alot of rushes with zippers etc recently. could they be turned down in effectiveness against things like moho mines. because theirs no way to defend against its speed in early game, also no way of defending all moho's on some maps. where theyre so spread that there is a need for 1 turret per mine.
torpedo bombers should be alot more effective against ships and maybe have a (forget the name) underwater radar aswell. currently gunships are better at taking out ships imho.
lvl 1 rocket troops are being a bit overly exploited. for their range. maybe make it so that theyre are a bit slower then other units so that they can be caught. =]
i would say. the game of XTA is pretty good as is. however there are just some balencing issues, and some units that have lost all point to them.
thanksfor reading D.R
