Absolute Annihilation 1.5

[NOiZE]

define a freaking rambo
a com which can become 50-60% more valuable with careful use against lone units
or a com with 4k HP a mid ranged dgun able to get 1-2k more HP pretty easily
seriously...what im proposing encourages careful use of the com.

Because it gets HP so easy you don't have to be carefull with your commander, also when it gets hurt it will be repaired fast!

ATM, repairing goes slow, so aggressive use of the commander is risky!

[krogothe]

Please rename the comm to "bag of potatoes" then, so i wont be confused thinking it really is a commander.

[Quanto042]

Please rename the comm to "bag of potatoes" then, so i wont be confused thinking it really is a commander.

I agree with Krog, he's the freaken commander for crying out loud, leave him alone!!!

The game isn't call "Careful Tactics" its call Total (Fucking) Annihilation!!! let the poor game live up to its name!

[Machiosabre]

comms could stand to have a little more hp but I definetly prefer this over what it used to be, no more guys without any defence that completely rely on their 6000hp comms to d-gun everything.

[Min3mat]

i suggest
put dgun range between what it is now (too short) and what it was (too long)
EITHER buff HP back to 4k OR roll back experience system
The changes to his Laser weapon in combination to this should make the com useful without being a 'rambo'

Also storms should have 20-30% slower missiles as they are a bit too useful when microed at the moment, a slight nerf is needed IMO

Fighters should either not be able to target land units or do only 10% damage to them

The AA Kbots (T2) when added will remove the incentive for ARM to go for vehicles, at the moment i rarely use adv vehicles but when i do i generally do it for the flak units to balance out my army (as by the time you have t2 you will need flak fairly soon as jethros become obselete). I like the balance atm
You want mobile radar? and jammers? you need both plants then. You want all purpose all terrain units? kbots then! you need them with some support? get vehicles! i like the way it encourages a mixed army and a T2 AA Kbot would ruin in IMO

[Pxtl]

All I want is his sidearm not to suck. Give it the same stats as an LLT, and make it take less than a year for him to raise his arm to fire it. Is that so much to ask? Then he can fight off a handful of peewees in a pinch.

Plus, with his crappy health I still worry about him getting vapourised by random bertha-fire.

[NOiZE]

i suggest
put dgun range between what it is now (too short) and what it was (too long)
EITHER buff HP back to 4k OR roll back experience system

4k HP then, don't bring back the experience system!

Also storms should have 20-30% slower missiles as they are a bit too useful when microed at the moment, a slight nerf is needed IMO

Fighters should either not be able to target land units or do only 10% damage to them

The AA Kbots (T2) when added will remove the incentive for ARM to go for vehicles, at the moment i rarely use adv vehicles but when i do i generally do it for the flak units to balance out my army (as by the time you have t2 you will need flak fairly soon as jethros become obselete). I like the balance atm
You want mobile radar? and jammers? you need both plants then. You want all purpose all terrain units? kbots then! you need them with some support? get vehicles! i like the way it encourages a mixed army and a T2 AA Kbot would ruin in IMO

Agree Agree Agree Agree on all those points... how weird i agree with you

[Machiosabre]

I dont think the AA Kbot is the problem though, arm vehicles are just a bit bland in comparison to kbots or core vehicles.
I mean the lightning tanks and cloakable tanks are ok, but meh I wouldn't build a factory to get em like I would goliaths or spiders.

[Pxtl]

You can't seriuosly think that the Arm vehicles are _more_ bland than Core vehicles. Yes, Core vehicles have power, but otherwise they're all-brute-force and artillery. Arm vehicles have more variety and thus have a little room for finesse and can reward a tactical player.

As for the fighters, I'd just nerf their health so that they die fast to anti-air fire, and boost the speed and tracking on L1 AA kbot missiles so you get a guaranteed hit. That way bringing down fighters becomes trivial when necessary, but they can still clobber other aircraft and undefended ground targets.

edit: as for AA kbots, the reason they were created is that some mountainous maps nearly require you to use all-Kbot forces for terrain reasons. Such forces then get crushed by a handful of Brawlers.

[Hellspawn]

Yes comm is to easy to kill now, it kills comm-end style of playing.

[Machiosabre]

You can't seriuosly think that the Arm vehicles are _more_ bland than Core vehicles. Yes, Core vehicles have power, but otherwise they're all-brute-force and artillery. Arm vehicles have more variety and thus have a little room for finesse and can reward a tactical player.

Core vehicles are far more usefull then arms, their awesome artillery and brute force is what keeps them from being bland.
If you're a tactical player you wouldn't build arm vehicles over kbots.

[TradeMark]

I wonder why com health reduced at all???

[Pxtl]

You can't seriuosly think that the Arm vehicles are _more_ bland than Core vehicles. Yes, Core vehicles have power, but otherwise they're all-brute-force and artillery. Arm vehicles have more variety and thus have a little room for finesse and can reward a tactical player.

Core vehicles are far more usefull then arms, their awesome artillery and brute force is what keeps them from being bland.
If you're a tactical player you wouldn't build arm vehicles over kbots.

Ohh, by "bland" I thought you meant "boring" which Arm tanks definitely aren't.

[TradeMark]

lol i smell something: core nuke takes 2999 damage to commanders, but arm nuke takes 2500 :D

[Leaderz0rz]

Just the other day I caught a comm in my front lines and took it out with 6 thuds by surounding him..seemed alittle to easy to kill to be honest. Though it was the players fault for getting caught at my frontline etc but I think the reduced HP is alittle to much..though I like the idea behind having to protect your comm and not using him as a kill all unit to save you from your mistakes.

[Machiosabre]

lol i smell something: core nuke takes 2999 damage to commanders, but arm nuke takes 2500 :D

arm and core nukes have been different for a long time.

[Pxtl]

lol i smell something: core nuke takes 2999 damage to commanders, but arm nuke takes 2500 :D

arm and core nukes have been different for a long time.

Yep, it's an OTA feature. Armcomm can't handle nukes, Corecomm can.

[Quanto042]

Well traditionally Arm has never had the greatest tanks, but i don't think that an AA T2 Kbot is not the answer either.

I have two suggestions that i have VERY strong feelings about and since we are on the subject i would like to point them out.

First off, if Cadyr REALLY wants to make a balanced mod AND if he really wants to base it off of TA; he should

(1) be balancing it based off of the traditional rolls of the original units.

(2) recognize that ARM has always had the advantage of Mobility and Naval Superiority. CORE has always been a SLOW, HULKING, dealer of DEATH.

(1) a) Cadyr has not kept AA faithful to TA's roots. POINT:: CORE in OTA has NEVER had paralyzing units. Paralyzers have traditionally been an ARM technology (keeping with the mobility focus). Cadyr not only gave CORE paralyzer tech, but gave CORE the best ways in which to deal out that tech. (Bladewings, spy Kbots)
b) on top of that, Caydr Nerfed the Flash tank, he Nerfed the HLTs, he nerfed the Comm, he nerfed the Brawlers, and he reduced the damage dealt by the Annihilators. All IMO very bad moves. Especially when you take into consideration the fact that he gave the CORE some very badass and effective weapons to combat the ARM with. (Exploiter series of resource units, the Viper Rapid Rocket launcher, the Flame turrets.)

What does the ARM get???
A poke in the eye...
The pitbull, a turret that takes up MORE space than a viper and deals LESS damage. Peice of Shit CLOAKABLE lvl1 mexs (woo woo), and an EMP launcher that only paralyzes MOBILE UNITS(CORE units which really aren't very mobile to begin with!) If you want ARM to have a usable EMP launcher, allow it to PARALYZE STRUCTURES DAMNIT!!! That way my nerfed Flashes might actually do some damage for a change.


Alright this obviously sounds like a really bad flame, and it kinda is, I've been in dire need to vent for a long time and i figured i'd finally let it out. Ultimately what i'm getting at is that Caydrs idea of balance isn't true to TA, and if anything hurts the gameplay.

Caydr's brand of balance emphasizes Unit to Unit balancing acts, (unit A can only damage unit B, unit B can only damage unit C, while Unit C kills unit A)

Chris Taylors balance was based on (High Speed and Low armor with Moderate weapons is just as effective as Low speed, Moderate armor, and Heavy Weapons.)
Translation = Arm is a match for Core because when used properly Arm units can out manuever Core units and deal the damage while generating misses.
Core combats the Arm by absolutly OBLITERATING the Arm units in a single hit while slowly making thier way to the Arm base. When the Core gets to the Arm base, the core generally stays there.
When the Arm gets to the Core base, the Arm moves in, kills economy to support heavy units, and moves out, Arm units have no staying power.

in a T1 match, Arm should beat Core (Flash Tanks, Arm vehicles beat Core Vehicles, Core Kbots beat Arm Kbots.)
in a T2 match, Core should own Arm (Cans and Sumos are pretty much area control units, where they go, they control. Mavs and Zues' on the other hand, bounce in and out to combat that threat. and as far as vehicles are concerned, the Goliath lives up to its title as Main Battle tank. and what a lot people forget is that the Bulldog is NOT a counter for the Goliath, the Bulldog counters the Reaper(a tank that in OTA is not equiped with a flamethrower, but rather a cannon that is exact to the one used by the bulldog.) The Arm does not have a counter for the Goliath, and nor should it. CORE is slow and deadly, Arm is fast and manueverable, neither side should attempt to win in a battle by playing by the other side's rules.


Alright back to what i wanted to say...

Arm doesn't need a lvl2 AA Kbot, just make the Phallanx cheaper, and give the flash its speed back, (i'm not concerned about the armor) the flash should outrun EVERYTHING but a plane.

[Machiosabre]

^disagree with everything exept that bulldogs dont have to counter goliaths.

stronger brawlers, flashes, annihilators, stun only for arm, what are you smoking?

[NOiZE]

Wel........

i disagree