Wikileaks

[smoth]

Entitlement, which can be brought about through lack of education as been shown to increase the probability of violence occurring.

I love my country.

[pintle]

Enlightenment, which can be brought about through education as been shown to reduce the probability of violence occurring.

Could you provide a citation for that? I'm quite skeptical that there is actually any sociological evidence to support that (what would the control sample be?).

Personally I think a rational cognisant being will recognise the mutual benefit of a safe society, but that is a very very situational and subjective thing: Enlightened western capitalist democracies drop nuclear weapons on people.

Education and state apparratus create a climate where violence is legitimized and systemized: there is not one capitalist democracy in existence the survival of which at some time has not been contingent upon violence. (afaik)

I would also suggest that the threat of retribution is a much greater motivator in reducing violent incidents in many societies, as opposed to realisation of some moral imperitive.

TL:DR= Smarter/"more enlightened" does not necessarily mean less violent.

[smoth]

I think she is talking about on an individual level. I believe this is true, someone who is more educated is less likely to desire violence simply because the individual will see how it can be a problem versus someone who simply cannot see ho there will be consequences due to lack of education also awesomely huge run on sentence.

[Panda]

Smoth's explanation about what I was saying was right.

pintle, I also do not believe that Smarter means "more enlightened".

[Forboding Angel]

In fact, "smarter", in a lot of cases is synonymous with "dumber".

[TradeMark]

Yeah, chimps etc are similar to humans in their social structure. But how does this prove im wrong with the statement: "everyone are just pussies who are afraid of doing or saying anything different from the current standards, and the group pressure is the reason for this" ?

Kinda reminds of this forum system too, only the rare individuals here have the right of saying or doing what they think without any consequences, rest are banned immediately for their open minds or bullied to do what they say in the fear of getting banned. THAT is what every (shitty) government is also doing, if you replace the word "banned" with the word "killed".

[Teutooni]

Personally, I'm looking forward to the day chips are smarter than us.

[Sleksa]

"everyone are just pussies who are afraid of doing or saying anything different from the current standards, and the group pressure is the reason for this" ?

Just because you have a different opinion than most doesnt mean that its automatically better than the others

[pintle]

I have frequently protested against the actions of my government Trademark.

You make completely baseless generalisations in a hugely aggressive and self-important tone.

Have you ever lobbied your member of government? Have you ever protested in the street? Do you even vote? Are you a hilarious internet hypocrite?

Maybe you and your peers are completely subjugated worker-peons, but man, not everybody is...


@Panda: I guess what I was suggesting is that "Enlightenment" is quite an ill defined concept (presuming we don't talk about the historical period) and could be taken to mean "accepting my subjective moral values" so I struck for the closest concrete parallel i could find: being "smart" or educated. I mean personally I think you think about it enough and you see the benefits of mutual cooperation, but even that requires a safe operational context (IE operating within a democracy established and defended via violence).

[smoth]

Just because you have a different opinion than most doesnt mean that its automatically better than the others

It's like you have never read trademark's posts before sleksa .

[AF]

trolls trolling trolls, this thread isnt going anywhere..

[TradeMark]

Just because you have a different opinion than most doesnt mean that its automatically better than the others

I never said that they are better?

You make completely baseless generalisations in a hugely aggressive and self-important tone.

Do you have some basis on your counter-argument then? I doubt so.

Maybe you and your peers are completely subjugated worker-peons, but man, not everybody is...

Now whos making completely baseless generalisations in a hugely aggressive and self-important tone?

[PicassoCT]

Back to the topic, wikileaks, replacing the fatcats of journalism by taking again some risks and acquiring sources beyond the news agencys, is a danger for anybody who is corrupt, whos affairs of state are a mess, and whos reasoning is weak, and wouldnt stand even the very same, leaked reports given by loyal people.

Tl,dr; Presidents ignoring there own secret services can get into trouble if people dont ignore those "news"

[smoth]

Yeah, chimps etc are similar to humans in their social structure.

Classic trademark.

Yeah, everyone knows, but everyone are just pussies that fear of saying what they think. Thats how we are taught in the school... you get rejected if you dont agree to the majority.

Hurr durr social interaction predates school

You were saying that people act that way because of SCHOOL not natural behavior.

"everyone are just pussies who are afraid of doing or saying anything different from the current standards, and the group pressure is the reason for this" ?

Your statement fails at absolutism. EVERYONE is nothing, there is not conglomerate global mental viewpoint. Even with modern nationalist brainwashing we are still seeing many divergent social groups(see teaparty nutjobs). People say things and stand up against the social norm on a regular basis, some do it in unhealthy ways(pedophiles, murders, theives) others do it in healthy ways(aproaching social groups with known hostility in the hope of reaching understanding). your logic is flawed because you put everyone in a tiny box of your jaded perspective. People are so much more complex and interesting than that.

[pintle]

"everyone are just pussies who are afraid of doing or saying anything different from the current standards, and the group pressure is the reason for this"

Yes TM my statement was completely without logical basis or precedent, touche.

[TradeMark]

I didnt mean the school is the reason, but the group pressure instead. It can happen at any place, not just in the school.

People are so much more complex and interesting than that.

Only their lies are complex... The real face is something very simple which they are hiding for their whole lives. C'mon, we all know theres no such thing as a "badass" or etc, its all just acting.

I thought everyone knows these things... -_-

[smoth]

No people have moments of badassery. It is part of survival. That sort of split second reaction and zone experience has been under study for years. People are capable of amazing things when put under pressure and sometime when there is a split second decision required. Maybe you think a badass is someone who goes and acts like a thug or some sort of imaginary chuck norris. To me a badass is the person who in that split second due partially to natural instinct, adrenaline and life experience makes an awesome move or decision. I have personally seen people have moments like this and you have to. It is simply that you want to see the world in a diminished state so your cynical view isn't threatened.

People do not all have the same "real face" or what others call a "base personality." Even personality is changeable via environment because even food we eat can have chemical effect on our brain and our world perception and view. Why else would people seek to pry their minds free with drugs? Why would people drink various caffeine drinks? Why caffeine is a mere alertness enhancer it also raises levels of anxiety in an individual and while you may say that has nothing to do with a "real face." It has everything to do with it. Anxiety has to do with insecurity and insecurity is at the base a person seeing them self as wanting in some aspect. You cannot simply see people so far abstracted at eat,sleep,mate. There really is too much both in base nature and environment that influences people.

this is really kinda left field I guess, I need more clarification on your view?

[FireStorm_]

Back to the topic

well, at least you tried.

Perhaps a tread spilt into topic "Cablegate, politics, and psychology"?
I for one am loosing oversight...

[pintle]

Spring amateur political analyses threads are never ever worth your time. I only stepped into this thread when some remotely interesting discussion popped up.

[TradeMark]

*stuff*

I may (note: i dont say i do have) have cynical view, but it doesnt mean i am more wrong than you.

Also, caffeine doesnt make me believe i need to buy yellow shirt because everyone else has one.