hehe ok i will :)
But one small point i have to criticize: There is no room for descriptions and in FF you need them really. I put there the hints for newbies, which unit is best for and thats really usefull.
..:: New GUI Design - in progress ::..
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Description can be in tooltip? Maybe make it bit wider than it now is?
Or just mouse over tooltips, little 'pop-up' window that can show extra info (wanting to implement this anyway)
And indeed, it's gonna take quite a while for this to get into spring.
The cegui must be programmed into the spring engine first, and after that a 'skin' must be made to get all these features in.
Let's say the first goal is to make the original menu with cegui, and after that we will try to implement more and more features that are shown in my concept designs.
But most important is, that this concept is solid, and has all the possible graphics and locations for them in it.
One question im struggling with, is the next one:
Do we need to have seperate Orders/Build menu's, so we can fit more build-pictures in one menu, or do we want the basic controls in every menu, so you dont have to switch to the orders-tab, but therefor have less room for buildpics... ?
Or just mouse over tooltips, little 'pop-up' window that can show extra info (wanting to implement this anyway)
And indeed, it's gonna take quite a while for this to get into spring.
The cegui must be programmed into the spring engine first, and after that a 'skin' must be made to get all these features in.
Let's say the first goal is to make the original menu with cegui, and after that we will try to implement more and more features that are shown in my concept designs.
But most important is, that this concept is solid, and has all the possible graphics and locations for them in it.
One question im struggling with, is the next one:
Do we need to have seperate Orders/Build menu's, so we can fit more build-pictures in one menu, or do we want the basic controls in every menu, so you dont have to switch to the orders-tab, but therefor have less room for buildpics... ?
If your selection includes defence buildings, you can't move with the context button, but have to move with m... Like if all your defense units are mixed up with your turrets and all and you have to do a quick counterattack. Just select them all with a broad brush and then use the move order.
It would be useful if there were some hints when playing so people could learn the keyboard shortcuts really quickly, and then could toggle parts of the gui off.
I only use move m attack a reclaim e guard g, but I'm a noob. :) Oh and d-gun and self-d too.
Oh and issuing move commands to the minimap would rule, this is an old request tho.
It would be useful if there were some hints when playing so people could learn the keyboard shortcuts really quickly, and then could toggle parts of the gui off.
I only use move m attack a reclaim e guard g, but I'm a noob. :) Oh and d-gun and self-d too.
Oh and issuing move commands to the minimap would rule, this is an old request tho.
I have just one big complaint. I hope the the "Orders" and "Build" buttons won't move when you click on them. I think that the top, not the bottom is where the left sidbar should be ancered. ie if I switch from orders to build mode, I want the "Orders" and "Build" buttons to be in the same place.
I also freely admit that the build cost bars are confusing.
I also freely admit that the build cost bars are confusing.
Worth repeating. The only time a control moves around is when the user moves it. This lets you make the most of muscle memory, and is something the current interface is sorely lacking.patmo98 wrote:I have just one big complaint. I hope the the "Orders" and "Build" buttons won't move when you click on them. I think that the top, not the bottom is where the left sidbar should be ancered. ie if I switch from orders to build mode, I want the "Orders" and "Build" buttons to be in the same place.
I like the bars. Very much.AF wrote:@IceXuick *points at big post totally quashing the bars next to the build pics that everybody ignroed*
Often when playing, I only look at the most signifigant digit of metal cost for what I'm building, and what order of magnitude it is. That's when I'm being careful. But when the game is playing fast sometimes I misjudge, and something ends up costing me a lot more than my econ can handle. This happens most when I go ships, something I usually don't do, because of their expense (a torpedo launcher has a wicked metal drain per unit time compared with other defensive structures).
So a graphical representation is, for me, very nice, and much more intuitive.
On the topic of scale, I would make them sort of logarithmic- IE the bottom third (yellow) of the bar goes from 0 to 1,000, the next third (orange) from 1,000 to 10,000, the top third from 10,000 to 100,000. Would give you more range, and at a glance you could divide things into Cheap, Medium, and Expensive Stuff both by bar size AND color.
Now, I'm not saying there shouldn't be a toggle to turn it off, but I am saying that at least the capability to turn those bars on would be pretty hot. I have a widescreen monitor (iMac FTW) so I can afford the wide taskbar.
First off, Ice, really glad to have you here. Your maps are first rate, and it seems that your graphic design has breathed some fresh air into the GUI project (with continuing thanks to journi and anyone else working on it).
With respect to your build pics/orders interface question, it seems to me that we only need certain ones to access most of the time - Group AIs, LandAt, and maybe Capture (as I can never remember the shortcut for it =P). For Reclaim, Patrol, Guard, Attack, etc. (can anyone even tell me why there's a Move button to begin with?), I'd imagine that we'd only need a seperate menu for the new players (perhaps with a tooltip telling them the shortcut keys), as the rest of us already have the shortcut keys memorized, and probably forget that the command options are anywhere but on our keyboards most of the time.
*Note: laugh this off if ya want, and I never really need it, as I tend to reuse the same Ctrl groups from match to match, but would it be possible to show very tiny icons for the Ctrl groups along the bottom right of the screen or somewhere with pics of whatever the primary unit type selected was (or a massed icon for more than one type)? Actually, that sounds like a pita - forget I suggested it. =P
Thanks again for the work!
With respect to your build pics/orders interface question, it seems to me that we only need certain ones to access most of the time - Group AIs, LandAt, and maybe Capture (as I can never remember the shortcut for it =P). For Reclaim, Patrol, Guard, Attack, etc. (can anyone even tell me why there's a Move button to begin with?), I'd imagine that we'd only need a seperate menu for the new players (perhaps with a tooltip telling them the shortcut keys), as the rest of us already have the shortcut keys memorized, and probably forget that the command options are anywhere but on our keyboards most of the time.
*Note: laugh this off if ya want, and I never really need it, as I tend to reuse the same Ctrl groups from match to match, but would it be possible to show very tiny icons for the Ctrl groups along the bottom right of the screen or somewhere with pics of whatever the primary unit type selected was (or a massed icon for more than one type)? Actually, that sounds like a pita - forget I suggested it. =P
Thanks again for the work!
Actually, now that I think more about it, I think the HP for each keybind group (as opposed to GroupAI groups) is an excellent idea. I tend to have at least seven groups bound by the mid-game, nine if I'm making heavy use of aircraft or specialist units. And all tend to be doing things, not just the one or two I'm currently focusing on. Having yet another way to tell the status of the group, to watch for signs that they've wandered into a dangerous situation, would be wonderful.Tired wrote:*Note: laugh this off if ya want, and I never really need it, as I tend to reuse the same Ctrl groups from match to match, but would it be possible to show very tiny icons for the Ctrl groups along the bottom right of the screen or somewhere with pics of whatever the primary unit type selected was (or a massed icon for more than one type)? Actually, that sounds like a pita - forget I suggested it. =P
There is the attack klaxon, but it's not 100% reliable. For example, take a group of bombers blowing something to bits. As soon as you scroll away from them, you're going to start getting attack klaxons, because they're going to be taking hits from any lasers they fly over. But none of those hits are particularly interesting, as they're not a real threat. An HP/# of units display would let you see this, and would also let you know when it's time to pay attention to them because they've run into some AA.
Another thing on the GUI wishlist: accurate resource consumption reports. In OTA, if memory serves, you always had accurate information about how fast you were using your resources even if you were stalling. So you'd be at 0 metal, but still see +23/-30. In Spring, as soon as you start stalling, your resource consumption drops down to be exactly equal your resource production. This makes it hard to tell at a glance if you're in a minor stall or a major stall.
Well, technical the current Spring method is the "accurate" one, but it would still be awesome to show the resource drain OTA-style (what you're trying to or should be draining), as has been requested many times before.Egarwaen wrote:...
Another thing on the GUI wishlist: accurate resource consumption reports. In OTA, if memory serves, you always had accurate information about how fast you were using your resources even if you were stalling. So you'd be at 0 metal, but still see +23/-30. In Spring, as soon as you start stalling, your resource consumption drops down to be exactly equal your resource production. This makes it hard to tell at a glance if you're in a minor stall or a major stall.
Whoa, cool idea.. Have groups as health boxes at some part of the screen.Egarwaen wrote:Actually, now that I think more about it, I think the HP for each keybind group (as opposed to GroupAI groups) is an excellent idea. I tend to have at least seven groups bound by the mid-game, nine if I'm making heavy use of aircraft or specialist units. And all tend to be doing things, not just the one or two I'm currently focusing on. Having yet another way to tell the status of the group, to watch for signs that they've wandered into a dangerous situation, would be wonderful.Tired wrote:*Note: laugh this off if ya want, and I never really need it, as I tend to reuse the same Ctrl groups from match to match, but would it be possible to show very tiny icons for the Ctrl groups along the bottom right of the screen or somewhere with pics of whatever the primary unit type selected was (or a massed icon for more than one type)? Actually, that sounds like a pita - forget I suggested it. =P
There is the attack klaxon, but it's not 100% reliable. For example, take a group of bombers blowing something to bits. As soon as you scroll away from them, you're going to start getting attack klaxons, because they're going to be taking hits from any lasers they fly over. But none of those hits are particularly interesting, as they're not a real threat. An HP/# of units display would let you see this, and would also let you know when it's time to pay attention to them because they've run into some AA.
Say, you have 100 of 100 health units in group 1 and it shows health 10000/10000. When they're attacked, the group box flashes red and you can see the health going down to 9990/10000. When units die, it can go to 9000/9000.
When the flashing box has raised your attention, you can click it or press 1 (twice to transfer the view to them), or do whatever you do. There's only max 10 groups anyway, so the space can be fixed.
Thx first off all.Tired wrote:First off, Ice, really glad to have you here. Your maps are first rate, and it seems that your graphic design has breathed some fresh air into the GUI project (with continuing thanks to journi and anyone else working on it).
With respect to your build pics/orders interface question, it seems to me that we only need certain ones to access most of the time - Group AIs, LandAt, and maybe Capture (as I can never remember the shortcut for it =P). For Reclaim, Patrol, Guard, Attack, etc. (can anyone even tell me why there's a Move button to begin with?), I'd imagine that we'd only need a seperate menu for the new players (perhaps with a tooltip telling them the shortcut keys), as the rest of us already have the shortcut keys memorized, and probably forget that the command options are anywhere but on our keyboards most of the time.
*Note: laugh this off if ya want, and I never really need it, as I tend to reuse the same Ctrl groups from match to match, but would it be possible to show very tiny icons for the Ctrl groups along the bottom right of the screen or somewhere with pics of whatever the primary unit type selected was (or a massed icon for more than one type)? Actually, that sounds like a pita - forget I suggested it. =P
Thanks again for the work!
About the orders/buttons:
I think all buttons should be available in the first place. The interface, as said before, should be as intuitive as possible, and it should give you full acces to almost every control used (esspecially needed for players new to spring, and also players who have played it, but don't know all of the possible commands). The minimize buttons in the different sub-menu's are there, so more experienced players can flip this menu up or down to their own likings. I specially made serveral sub-menu's so an veteran player can close the ones that are all possible with shortcuts on in-game mouse controls. There will still remain some controls that aren't short-cutted, and those commands you can keep 'open' in your commands/orders menu.
About the groups info thing:
That is a very good idea. As it is to keep the area of your battleview the biggest, i think there still is room for some (small) icons with info for the groups. When managing more than 3 groups on a large battlefield, it is hard to keep track of them all. The idea of giving a visual indication of a groups status/situation is very good. Maybe you should also be able to set an alarm to a group, so a sound and/or visual indication on the minimap can inform you of a group being attacked, or having reached it's destination (and standing idle, or waiting for the "w" wait command)
Then about the eco stall-stuff:
It's funny this gets mentioned now. I just had a chat with a friend about my gui concept, and that was one of the things we talked about the most. I think this is a must have. (and indeed in OTA you could see howmuch you'd 'like' to drain, and how much your income was). In my concept you see a green or red arrow saying if you're going up or down in your eco, i think adding more arrow to this (or some other graphic visualisation) to tell you if you're going down slowly, or headed for a major stall. Info on your (near) future eco is very important. A good system to show a player what his 'trend' in his eco is, is very very handy.
This being said, i'll go designing these things, and post them later today!
Thx for all the info/input!
ice out