School Shooting in Germany

[fraghawk]

I have the remedy.

give everyone the geass so they can say "dont shoot me"

or, we can destroy all guns and go back to swords. (at least you can defend aginst them effectly)

Do you live in fucking Final Fantasy land or something?

no.


im just a little eccentric

[smoth]

im just a little eccentric

[SwiftSpear]

a .22 holopoint digs about 5 inches into the body. It's about as deadly as getting stabbed with a steak knife. (with the exception that it won't pierce bone).

So yes, it's capable of killing in a single shot in a couple cases, and as always delayed medical attention will make things worse.

Why are we arguing about .22 weapons anyways? In virtually any instance where a firearm is intended to be used on humans it's going to be a higher caliber, or at least a more potent caliber, than the .22. Murderers (be the career criminals or just nutcases) are going to bring something more potent to the table, and so will vigilante concealed carriers, not to mention every police officer ever.

How many cases are there of gun-owner preventing a serious crime (preferably without bloodshed)?

Do such events outweight the burden/extra life lossess of having too many weapons in society?

Its nice to "have a right to defend yourself" - but if it turns out, that having a gun actually decreases your safety instead of increasing it, why bothering? Its then just psychological tool...

There won't be statistics for "times that a gun prevented a serious crime without bloodshed". It could be argued that pretty much every time a police officer pulls his gun that is the case.

A gun doesn't end a life, the user of the gun ends the life. A safely stored and maintained gun is not a domestic threat in any way. People who follow strict standard firearms policy regarding ammunition have a virtually non-existant chance of hurting themselfs or others. The statistics come from people who do not, who shouldn't be owning or using guns in the first place. That is why in Canada you must have a gun license before you can legally own a gun.

According the the last taken statistics, for every 1,000,000 canadians, ~1.5 of them will be involved in a fatal firearms accident. That's FAR below the violent crime rate, and far below the home invasion rate.

[zwzsg]

Anyone who's actually handled and fired guns knows that they are not automatic death machines. Want a very dangerous weapon that will cause terrible wounds and likely death when used in anger? Try a large ------- knife.

Come back after you have successfully stabbed to death 15 people with a ------- knife.

Have you ever tried to hit a moving target with a large caliber pistol?

Before arguing, take a firearm safety course and your eyes will be opened. I'm talking about a course where you actually fire the weapons, not some thing you found on the internet.

Have you ever tried to hit a moving target with a large caliber pistol?

How many of you actually know how sights on a pistol work?

So only people who are already gun fanatics are allowed to enter a discussion on the banning of them?



It also bristle me everytime I hear about "gun for defense". I would like to remind people that guns are purely offensive weapon. Shields, kevlar vest, armor, are defensive. Gun are offensive. Heck, even a sword would be better than a gun at defense (since you can parry with a blade, but not with a gun).

[KingRaptor]

Have you ever tried to hit a moving target with a large caliber pistol?

Before arguing, take a firearm safety course and your eyes will be opened. I'm talking about a course where you actually fire the weapons, not some thing you found on the internet.

Have you ever tried to hit a moving target with a large caliber pistol?

How many of you actually know how sights on a pistol work?

So only people who are already gun fanatics are allowed to enter a discussion on the banning of them?

Are you deliberately making a strawman argument here? Knowing how a firearm works != gun fanatic, surely you'd know that.

It also bristle me everytime I hear about "gun for defense". I would like to remind people that guns are purely offensive weapon. Shields, kevlar vest, armor, are defensive. Gun are offensive. Heck, even a sword would be better than a gun at defense (since you can parry with a blade, but not with a gun).

An effective defense often involves some degree of offense, since a method to prevent the opponent from continuing to attack is needed.

Take the pepper spray, for instance. It's small, unassuming, and is a lot less harmful than say, a gun or a sharp weapon - yet strictly speaking, it's an offensive weapon through and through. If a gang member attacks a police officer and the cop punches him, that's technically an act of offense regardless of the circumstances. Tasers are (usually) nonlethal, but still an offensive weapon. Is there even such a thing as a defensive weapon?

tl;dr: defense != offense^-1

[smoth]

I want a projectile tazer, so I can knock the fucker out, hog tie him and hand him over to the police with me standing over him like a hunter with his prize, then panda can take a picture.

If he dies at least I tried to be non lethal?

Anyway, so people here have stated strong OPINIONS and now we have heard them. Neither side is going to persuade the other. When does the thread get fun? never. However, keep going, I have not got to use up the "THEY TOOK AOUR GUUNZ" etc...

acid I am totally buying a m239 for my m16 that was bought in the unruly country of the united states.

[zwzsg]

Are you deliberately making a strawman argument here? Knowing how a firearm works != gun fanatic, surely you'd know that.

Well, you see, I live in a country where 20 gauge shotgun aren't considered a suitable birthday present for a 11 year old. Where I live, you've got to be really into guns to own and have already used them.

Is there even such a thing as a defensive weapon?

Offensive weapon is kinda a contradiction. A weapon is by definition offensive. Some weapons may have some small defensive side use, like in your exemple, if the cop use his arms not to punch but to block blows. And then there are defensive gear, which are not called weapons because they are defensive, duh! For instance, against the phobia of thieves coming in your house at night, instead of a gun under your pillow, use a lock on your door.

[Felix the Cat]

Are you deliberately making a strawman argument here? Knowing how a firearm works != gun fanatic, surely you'd know that.

Well, you see, I live in a country where 20 gauge shotgun aren't considered a suitable birthday present for a 11 year old. Where I live, you've got to be really into guns to own and have already used them.

Is there even such a thing as a defensive weapon?

Offensive weapon is kinda a contradiction. A weapon is by definition offensive. Some weapons may have some small defensive side use, like in your exemple, if the cop use his arms not to punch but to block blows. And then there are defensive gear, which are not called weapons because they are defensive, duh! For instance, against the phobia of thieves coming in your house at night, instead of a gun under your pillow, use a lock on your door.

tbh I disagree with your definition of "defensive"... defense is the use of force to protect yourself.

To defend your mexes against flash rush, do you build tons of DTs or tons of LLTs? Maybe you keep some stumpy around as a defensive force...

Defense describes the whole spectrum of ways to prevent someone from harming you, from passive methods like you described, to more active methods like shooting whoever is trying to harm you.

On knowing about firearms - it would make sense to know a bit about something before arguing to ban it, yes?

[smoth]

Locked doors are easily compromised, I sleep hard, someone breaks in this place, I am the only thing between panda and that person. You can expect me to defend her. If I don't there is a good chance the person in question WILL do bad things to a naked/scantly clad woman.

[Forboding Angel]

@zwzsg

On knowing about firearms - it would make sense to know a bit about something before arguing to ban it, yes?

Thanks to felix for saving me a lot of typing, but I'm going to repeat myself for the third time so that maybe this time he can attempt to read what I say IN context...

My entire point was that it is not like what you see in tv and movies, and actually hitting something with no practice prolly isn't going to happen. If you've never fired a 9mm before and think that you can just go rambo and take everyone out, you are quite mistaken. Guns take practice to use effectively, and even then it isn't like what you see on tv where the good guy takes out 25 bad guys before getting a scrape on his arm. RL isn't like that.

And the extension of my point was that you should do some real, live, research (as in go through a safety course, and go shoot at a range) before making sweeping arguments, as the simple act of going through those rigors will open your eyes and help you understand things much better.

And you keep taking my posts out of context z. Please stop it.

Also, how am I a fanatic? I don't even own a gun. I DO however go to the shooting range every now and again to shoot their colt .45. It costs me 15 bucks to even get on the range with a gun, and 100 rounds of .45 costs about 32 bucks a box. As I said, it's a very expensive and fun hobby. You would probably enjoy it yourself, that is if you would grow a pair and try it. You would be amazed how tough it is to hit a little target from a decent distance with a large caliber pistol and maintain accuracy. For extra entertainment, set up two targets 1 foot away from each other and switch targets every round.

Arguing on the internet is one thing, but you talk as if you wouldn't be surprised if I went to a mall and went rambo... I mean wtf? Seriously? Because I took the responsibility to learn about firearms (handguns in particular) I'm now a fanatic who is a liability risk for mass murder? Do you read what you say before you post it? Good God...

[Peet]

I decided awhile ago that I would lock this the moment people started resorting to ad hominem arguments.

You would probably enjoy it yourself, that is if you would grow a pair and try it.