New User Impressions and Suggestions

[nxain]

Are you just fucking with us or are you going to do something more than talk?

I know you do a great deal for the Spring project as I've read through a large part of the forums. My point was that isn't productive to your own personal Spring project goals as working on another mod would be for awhile. I've even thought about trying to recruit you for professional development (you did a nice job on the Gundam mod and you obviously are a driver on this community), but, it's pretty obvious that you aren't capable of working in a professional game development environment and you're probably happy doing whatever sort of programming work you're doing now.

I have no projects overlapping with Spring, nor do I want to use it to make money or fame. In fact, despite my initial speculation, I don't want to use Spring at all. I really don't know where those comments are coming from other than suggestions I've made that would benefit Spring overall. Nor have I ever said that I was an engineer - only that I have much experience in game development (the kind where we put finished projects on the shelf and expect people to actually be able to play them.)

BTW, "Beta" (in the game industry) means feature and content complete, which I've seen very little of concerning projects using Spring. I think "Alpha" or "Prototype" would be more accurate.

- nXain

[Tobi]

The Spring engine actually is closer to final release quality then alpha or prototype.

Also, keep in mind that the Spring ecosystem is not the same as a commercial game development setting.

We don't have deadlines; we don't have to sell enough to get our investments back; we all just do this as a hobby and as such we tackle problems we're interested in, which obviously aren't always the things that would benefit Spring as a whole the most.

[nxain]

The Spring engine actually is closer to final release quality then alpha or prototype.

Also, keep in mind that the Spring ecosystem is not the same as a commercial game development setting.

We don't have deadlines; we don't have to sell enough to get our investments back; we all just do this as a hobby and as such we tackle problems we're interested in, which obviously aren't always the things that would benefit Spring as a whole the most.

The engine is great, that's what brought me here (the game projects aren't beta, other than the *A's). I think Spring could be a killerapp of open source gaming. But that's not the point.

In a commercial game setting, you must please the stake holders - this means the people that paid for the project, the company that owns the tech, the stores that sell it and of course, the end-user. We do figure out ways to make ourselves happy just as filmmakers do.

For Spring, I'm assuming that most of the devs would find it fulfilling for people to play their projects and enjoy them and maybe for the projects to take on a life of their own. For some devs, I understand that just having code to tinker with is fulfilling. I also think that most of the devs of Spring would like to see the engine get used more and enable people to make their own quality games with their own unique visions. All my suggestions have been made with the Spring devs in mind other than the tinkerers (I don't have anything to contribute to that group).

When it comes down to it, I think most of the Spring devs would like to see people play games built on the engine and have fun with it. In the end, that requires more than everyone doing their own thing.

- nXain

[Hoi]

True, but the hard part is getting everyone together.

[nxain]

True, but the hard part is getting everyone together.

This is where the Blender project model is nice. Instead of long term flagship product, they have rotating projects that drive development with a core team for a point release.

Here's my suggestion (yes, another one):

Vote on a project worthy of extra community support and try to get as many people as possible on the project for X amount of time (2-3 months would be good) with the goal of getting an ongoing project to a beta stage. I'm assuming that knowledge about the engine crosses over between mods pretty well. Do this 4 times a year.

- nXain

[Sleksa]

In a commercial game setting, you must please the stake holders - this means the people that paid for the project, the company that owns the tech, the stores that sell it and of course, the end-user. We do figure out ways to make ourselves happy just as filmmakers do.

How many shares of stock do you own of spring? ~_~

For Spring, I'm assuming that most of the devs would find it fulfilling for people to play their projects and enjoy them and maybe for the projects to take on a life of their own. For some devs, I understand that just having code to tinker with is fulfilling.

stating the obvious here

I also think that most of the devs of Spring would like to see the engine get used more and enable people to make their own quality games with their own unique visions.

yet again

When it comes down to it, I think most of the Spring devs would like to see people play games built on the engine and have fun with it. In the end, that requires more than everyone doing their own thing.

- nXain

saying that i can just envision smoth giving up on making gundam and devoting his free time to make someone else's ideas(yours perhaps?)


Maybe you should just make a post on modmaking section where you demand everyone to build up a commercial game for spring to you for free? ~~

Vote on a project worthy of extra community support and try to get as many people as possible on the project for X amount of time (2-3 months would be good) with the goal of getting an ongoing project to a beta stage. I'm assuming that knowledge about the engine crosses over between mods pretty well. Do this 4 times a year.

Yeah! I vote for everyone dropping their projects to create a consistent set of arm and core units for BA, also someone could do some pretty lua for ba too

[nxain]

Maybe you should just make a post on modmaking section where you demand everyone to build up a commercial game for spring to you for free? ~~

Do you have a reading disability? I don't have a Spring project, nor am I going to create one. My suggestions are for Spring not me (BTW, my stocks and financial stakes are in the game studio where I'm employed)

- nXain

[Sleksa]

What you dont understand is that spring is not a single entity like your awesome game studio. Its compromised of several people, devoting their free time to their projects. Im sure it would be beneficial to get everyone together and work on a single project, but i doubt that's what the people want. This isnt their job, but a hobby.

quoting smoth

You talk about what is good for the spring engine, well guess what. You are not Tobi, if tobi said, "smoth i need some kind of independant mod" I would add that to my task list as priority 2 under gundam and start planning it.

i really want to see you convincing smoth to change gundam into secondary priority and whatever tobi says into primary, please show me how its done.

I don't have a Spring project, nor am I going to create one. My suggestions are for Spring not me

2) Spring needs a core, flagship game that is unique and associated with the full capabilities of Spring. Updating TA forever, ripping off Star Wars and various other IPs is not the way to go in the long run. From what I've seen so far, Spring is too good to stay in that ghetto space. Also, an unique IP will give the artists and developers a chance to shine and show their full creativity. Here are some suggestions I have:

~woops~

(BTW, my stocks and financial stakes are in the game studio where I'm employed)

- nXain

~Rich boy~

[daan 79]

hi

(BTW, my stocks and financial stakes are in the game studio where I'm employed)

So you care about them a bit!

You come here put trash on a respecteble member as smoth and trough some NOT NEW ideas in the group.

You can fuck yourself. First off all i tought you come here with some reason. But you are clearly bored.

I tell you one thing! I wanted to open a tread where i wanted to collect posts how ppl came to this project.

You can post in it how you get out of the project. I think computers arent your thing maybe dephelop a real skill.

Power is only nice when its used right.

The engine is great, that's what brought me here

daan

[nxain]

i really want to see you convincing smoth to change gundam into secondary priority and whatever tobi says into primary, please show me how its done.

Simple. Don't bother with Smoth, find out who wants to contribute to the big picture via a project and use them. That was my point about tinkerers. If Smoth wants to do his own thing, there is no reason to mess with that, especially considering what he gives back to the community. Besides, isn't the whole point of Open Source is that anyone can do whatever he wants with the code?

~Rich boy~

Wow, that's quite a jump in logic. I don't do too badly now, but I did put myself through school by using the G.I. Bill and work my way up the ladder. Neither of my parents finished high school. Of course, depending on what part of the world you're from, that may still qualify as "rich".

- nXain

[daan 79]

big boy i think they are proud
now tell us again wtf are you

[nxain]

hi
You can post in it how you get out of the project. I think computers arent your thing maybe dephelop a real skill.

The engine is great, that's what brought me here

daan

Maybe you'd like to invest in English lessons? BTW, Smoth told me to fuck off first, so I don't really see how I'm trashing him.

I'm not sure what "computers" means in this context (perhaps writing C++ on a Debian distro?), but I can assure you that I'm more than competent to be working in technology.

- nXain

[[TS]Lollocide]

Hi spring,

Here are some suggestions about your engine, if you disagree with any of my points, you are wrong because of my experience in design companies and should kill yourself for disagreeing with me.

I AM ONLY HERE TO TRO...I MEAN HELP.

[Forboding Angel]

Why are you guys getting so butthurt? It's not like he raped your boyfriends.

Learn to take comments with a grain of salt.

For example. I asked him to try evo. Long story short, he wasn't super pleased because it was hard for him to use. It's frustrating because I have spent considerable time and energy making it batshit easy for the everyday user, but I guess to some degree, that isn't enough.

My pride was hurt to some degree, but I got over it without flaming or trolling him. Why is it that you "Enlightened" personalities cannot do the same?

Suggestions and opinions are what they are. You cannot change someone's opinions any more than you can change what they think in their hard of hearts. So give it a rest people. You're acting like a bunch of brats that just got a good assraping.

[nxain]

Hi spring,

Here are some suggestions about your engine, if you disagree with any of my points, you are wrong because of my experience in design companies and should kill yourself for disagreeing with me.

I AM ONLY HERE TO TRO...I MEAN HELP.

Game development studios and publishers, not "design companies". I'm not sure what a design company is?

I'm not sure where "...should kill yourself for disagreeing with me" has come from other than some people on the board seem be very sensitive and react with extreme hostility to any suggestion that things could be done better.

- nXain

[Tobi]

Can we please keep it civil?

There's no need to trash talk him just because he gives some good constructive critique. I don't feel like cleaning up the thread yet again...

@nxain

What you say about tinkerers is about how Spring works IMO :

As much as I've seen Spring is the most chaotic and unorganised open source project ever, and it already was when I first noticed it. It's very hard if not impossible to change it's culture to something with a very clear target.

[Forboding Angel]

But there are a few of us that try very hard... Myself, argh, IW guys. The problem is that we that want to change for the better are the minority here.

[Tobi]

Well I think there are actually many people who want to change for the better but usually everyone wants to change to some other better.

[AF]

And they all seem to jump to conclusions and attack constructive criticism thus scaring away anybody who might be a potential contributor

[Forboding Angel]

Well I think there are actually many people who want to change for the better but usually everyone wants to change to some other better.

I'm willing to bet that if you and I were to sit down and talk about it, very little of our "goals" would clash.