Expand and Exterminate version 0.42

[1v0ry_k1ng]

you want it to have its weapons working on the default toggle, otherwise noobs will build them and be like OMG IT HAS NO GUN!

[eriatarka]

2. Armored form will now have a toggle mode, Armored mode will give him Lots of HP, but he will be unable to fire his weapon and will move at a decent rate.. Armed mode will open him up allowing him to fire his weapons but will severly reduce his HP, and cause him to slow down..

Hm... sounds like even more overbearing micro to me. But that's just my $0.02.

[Fanger]

More overbearing micro??

please elaborate before you use a phrase like that..

Aliens = more micro, this unit will run down like this since this will make it less effective, without making it NOT effective..

Also KDR I would use replace so that the button that changes modes doesnt say ON/OFF, but instead says Fire Mode, Armor Mode which would be more friendly to understanding what the toggle does..

Additionally Id like everyone to stop complaining about the cost of the Alien con, IF I changed to cost as much as another sides con the aliens would be so OP and tech happy it would be frightening.. You are all forgetting that when URC or GD goes to build that con from scratch they have to first build a HUB, then build a Factory, and finally build the con.. If you add all that up youll see its roughly 800m there as well..

Alien cons can clone for half cost, and additionally are armed, and also have a much higher amount of HP.. better deal in my mind..

[smoth]

Alien cons can clone for half cost, and additionally are armed, and also have a much higher amount of HP.. better deal in my mind..

[zwzsg]

I'm very against giving the alien T1 armored form giving an on/off button to switch between armored and armed, because that is needless highly annoying micro.

Micro abilities should be used only on very high level end-game units, not on entry level spam units built and dyring in the hundreds.

In Kernel Panic, the worm has a button to make it remain cloacked and not attack, and I hate it because half of the time my worms won't fire because of it, and it's highly irratiting to have to change their settings all the time so they fire.

Also KDR I would use replace so that the button that changes modes doesnt say ON/OFF, but instead says Fire Mode, Armor Mode which would be more friendly to understanding what the toggle does..

You can rename the on/off button, or use a custom toggle button, without having to replace the unit by another. (Like Kernel Panic 2.2 "autohold" button on the worm (though this one uses stolen GPL code)).

[smoth]

I do not see why it is considered high level micro, unlike starcraft you can activate the ability for all. The aliens are more micro heavy then say urc or GD but I do not understand why the opposition is soo strong.

fang's other solution was to further hamstring the unit so it could not be as powerful.

[zwzsg]

Play a couple medium-large KP2.2 games as hacker and you'll see if having to activate the ability for every new units is not annoyingly cumbersome.

[Fanger]

Then what do you propose, because the unit is going to be nerfed..

Either Its weapon becomes pointless, or its hp drops significantly, I was attempting to set it up so it can use both, but apparently people all feel that they WILL HAVE TO BUILD THIS UNIT, and they WILL HAVE TO MICRO IT.. but alas..

[smoth]

Play a couple medium-large KP2.2 games as hacker and you'll see if having to activate the ability for every new units is not annoyingly cumbersome.

the ability of the unit is that it is armored and can be a walking target. The combat mode is just an extra plus. IF I had it my way the armored guys would have an inverse repulse shield.

[Snipawolf]

Ignore the naysayers and continue with the on|off change!

[1v0ry_k1ng]

there are plenty of things you could do to the armoured form besides nerf it to oblivion. you could make it shorter ranged so it becomes a flamer/laser equivalent or lower its HP but make it regen.

on/off wouldnt be a problem as long as it is on the combat ready setting (firing its weapons) by default, that way when you need to use them as an armoured decoy you can just flip the switch

[eriatarka]

More overbearing micro??

please elaborate before you use a phrase like that..

I thought it was obvious, sorry. It's one more thing you have to pay attention to for every single unit: is it in the right state for what I want it to do? This forces you to spend more time at the individual-unit scale instead of the grander strategic scale, and that's the definition of micro management in my book, no?

I understand you designed the Aliens to be the more micro-heavy of the three factions, and they already are by a fair margin. I'm not in a position to tell you how to design your mod, and as I said: this is just my opinion, as I already have my hands full managing the Aliens as they are now. Just do what you think is right...

[zwzsg]

Then what do you propose, because the unit is going to be nerfed..

I suggest giving the armored form a very close range. If not even melee. So that it would run in front, soaking damage, but not dealing much because it would have to reach target first.

[Fanger]

there are plenty of things you could do to the armoured form besides nerf it to oblivion. you could make it shorter ranged so it becomes a flamer/laser equivalent or lower its HP but make it regen.

Ivory have you played recently, or with the aliens, the weapon has a range equal to flamer/laser.. the issue is that it has more than enough hitpoints to get into range, being that its HP is 2000, and it does 228 dps per sec, (more than a laser tank).. additionally for comparison.. a GD Medium Battle Tank has only 1700 HP..

This in combination at the same time makes this unit an issue.. I figured I could allow it to still have a useful weapon and bea meatshield by having it switch.. also the default setup (the one you build it as) would likely be the fire mode, and you would then click to switch it to armored mode, which would not be a button labled ON/OFF instead I would use the replace function so that the button would be labled ARMOR MODE or something like that..etc..

[Pxtl]

default mode. Armored.
toggled mode. unarmored but ready for fight.

Auto is fucking gay. the units could then be taunted open by a scout. No, my troops should follow my orders.

Fang, can you add a cooldown time to the morph so people cannot sploit it? or will it be timed with an anim aswell?

Well, my point was to suggest it as an _option_. Normal on/off units have two-states, I wanted a third state - on/off/auto. Have your cake and eat it too. I've had too much trouble managing the KP worms/bugs to not see this being a problem. Starcraft's seige-tanks were easier because you rarely ever saw more than 6 of the damn things in play at a time.

[Fanger]

Auto Mode would sorta defeat the point of having it be on/off at all now wouldnt it..

[smoth]

all this baaaaaaaaaaawing over 1 unit in a side most people do not play.

[Fanger]

Basically to solve world BAWWWWWW!.. I did this:

Armored form now has 950 HP, his weapons reload is upped to 2.3 from 2.1, and now has only 370 range as opposed to 380.. additionally while he is only moving, and such he is ARMORED = 1; and takes only 50% of incoming damage, the minute he begins aiming to fire (opens up) he goes to ARMORED = 0; and thus takes full damage at only 950 HP, this will not go away till he closes up again after he is done aiming. No micro with on/off and so forth.. Essentially means while closed he has 1900 HP, while open 950.. should be more balanced..


Oh and Ivory, the grey stuff on the models, turn on unit reflections and look at it again, its not gray, its shiney...

[smoth]

yay so I can open up the armored with a scout so my artillery can rape them.. I am the minority fang so I can understand where the decision has to be made, can you still consider that level 2 morph?

[Google_Frog]

Smoth you'll probably be able to set them to hold fire so they don't open up.