Trees
Moderators: MR.D, Moderators
Ruh roh. Remember that some of us do use the "simple trees" billboard mode. If frequently-used features like trees are going to become user-developable, then they _need_ to have an "billboard" image so that we can select "low-detail features" in the settings file. I don't want my computer to scream like a little girl on Sherwood Forest.
That makes about zero sense, then. What format are the default trees? If they support alpha, they obviously can't be S3O or 3DO. Why could we not simply create more trees in that format?
I understand that Spring was a game of love sort of thing, but now that it's becoming so much larger than a TA conversion, why not redo the engine. Because we have to face the facts here:
- Renderer = great for a freebie (though OpenGL is lacking)
- Material support = mediorce at best
- Animation system = utter crap
- Sound system = medicore at best
- UI = crap
- File format = ancient (crap)
- Tools = crap
Not being mean/cruel, just calling it as I see it. If you guys really want to expand this into a fully featured RTS engine, I'd suggest revamping the above elements. Any good middleware needs a shining example, with THOUROUGH documentation, great tools and great features. Spring sort of falls in the hard core hobby genre. It's a pain in the arse to work with, and there's very little documentation.
If these things are corrected, there could be an explosion of people who are interested in making great little RTS games. :)
/takes 2 cents, places on table.
I understand that Spring was a game of love sort of thing, but now that it's becoming so much larger than a TA conversion, why not redo the engine. Because we have to face the facts here:
- Renderer = great for a freebie (though OpenGL is lacking)
- Material support = mediorce at best
- Animation system = utter crap
- Sound system = medicore at best
- UI = crap
- File format = ancient (crap)
- Tools = crap
Not being mean/cruel, just calling it as I see it. If you guys really want to expand this into a fully featured RTS engine, I'd suggest revamping the above elements. Any good middleware needs a shining example, with THOUROUGH documentation, great tools and great features. Spring sort of falls in the hard core hobby genre. It's a pain in the arse to work with, and there's very little documentation.
If these things are corrected, there could be an explosion of people who are interested in making great little RTS games. :)
/takes 2 cents, places on table.
I have read them.
They aren't always very specific on their topic, and on top of it, they're scattered all over the place. The wiki for example - I have to dig through 4 pages before getting to read about the texturing process. They should all be bulleted lists, right smack on the main page. Or at the very least, second page. I shouldn't have to dig through endless forum posts and ADDITIONAL websites and readmes for info on how to mod the game.
They aren't always very specific on their topic, and on top of it, they're scattered all over the place. The wiki for example - I have to dig through 4 pages before getting to read about the texturing process. They should all be bulleted lists, right smack on the main page. Or at the very least, second page. I shouldn't have to dig through endless forum posts and ADDITIONAL websites and readmes for info on how to mod the game.
I'm very happy you pointed out this Vassago.
Almost all pages who contains information about anything regarding unit making is gathered on the wiki (http://taspring.clan-sy.com/wiki/Mod_an ... evlopement). Though that is only a list of places you can search for what you need.
Maybe I can find the time to make a simple site that gathers all information and presents it on a decent way.
Almost all pages who contains information about anything regarding unit making is gathered on the wiki (http://taspring.clan-sy.com/wiki/Mod_an ... evlopement). Though that is only a list of places you can search for what you need.
Maybe I can find the time to make a simple site that gathers all information and presents it on a decent way.
Ever heard of hard coded features?Vassago wrote:That makes about zero sense, then. What format are the default trees? If they support alpha, they obviously can't be S3O or 3DO. Why could we not simply create more trees in that format?
Because we don't have infinite time.I understand that Spring was a game of love sort of thing, but now that it's becoming so much larger than a TA conversion, why not redo the engine.
What is OpenGL lacking? Do you know a better cross platform hardware rendering library? Or do you mean our usage of OpenGL is lacking?- Renderer = great for a freebie (though OpenGL is lacking)
Being worked on, sometimes.- UI = crap
No, we don't want to expand this into a fully featured RTS engineNot being mean/cruel, just calling it as I see it. If you guys really want to expand this into a fully featured RTS engine, I'd suggest revamping the above elements. Any good middleware needs a shining example, with THOUROUGH documentation, great tools and great features. Spring sort of falls in the hard core hobby genre. It's a pain in the arse to work with, and there's very little documentation.
If these things are corrected, there could be an explosion of people who are interested in making great little RTS games. :)
Sorry for being sarcastic but each and every problem you mention either doesn't exist or is known already.
E: about the engine, that is
- Of course. Hard coded features can also be changed by the coders.Tobi wrote:Ever heard of hard coded features?
I wasn't suggesting redoing the engine from SCRATCH. I mean building upon it, little by little. Add alpha texture support (it should NOT be hard, consindering the engine renders alpha already), adding normal mapping support, etc. Little by little.Tobi wrote:Because we don't have infinite time.
Cross-platform? No. But Ogl is lacking in what it can do. DirectX is a far better rendering system. You Mac freaks can whine if you want, but it's the truth. OpenGL doesn't support nearly as many advanced features as DirectX.What is OpenGL lacking? Do you know a better cross platform hardware rendering library?
Again, not asking for results overnight. Just so long as it's being worked on! :) Also, if any help is needed in any area, I'm more than willing to help.Tobi wrote:Being worked on, sometimes.
Sorry then, but that was the impression I got by reading over soo many threads. If not, I guess there's no problem. Still a convaluted system, though :)Tobi wrote:No, we don't want to expand this into a fully featured RTS engine
s
I'm also willing to help with any Wiki organizational stuff if need be. I just want to see the product/engine progress - it's too damn fun to play, and too frustrating to work with :)
Now this is what I root you for. (next to other brilliant things you can do)Vassago wrote:I'm also willing to help with any Wiki organizational stuff if need be. I just want to see the product/engine progress - it's too damn fun to play, and too frustrating to work with :)
The biggest problem reguarding development is that people often suggest items that are placed on a mile long list, but hardly ever look how they can solve it them selves. Like Noize would say: Make us a patch!
What EXACTLY do you think the coders are doing now? Raising chickens?Vassago wrote:- Of course. Hard coded features can also be changed by the coders.Tobi wrote:Ever heard of hard coded features?
I wasn't suggesting redoing the engine from SCRATCH. I mean building upon it, little by little. Add alpha texture support (it should NOT be hard, consindering the engine renders alpha already), adding normal mapping support, etc. Little by little.Tobi wrote:Because we don't have infinite time.
Cross-platform? No. But Ogl is lacking in what it can do. DirectX is a far better rendering system. You Mac freaks can whine if you want, but it's the truth. OpenGL doesn't support nearly as many advanced features as DirectX.What is OpenGL lacking? Do you know a better cross platform hardware rendering library?
Again, not asking for results overnight. Just so long as it's being worked on! :) Also, if any help is needed in any area, I'm more than willing to help.Tobi wrote:Being worked on, sometimes.
Sorry then, but that was the impression I got by reading over soo many threads. If not, I guess there's no problem. Still a convaluted system, though :)Tobi wrote:No, we don't want to expand this into a fully featured RTS engine
s
I'm also willing to help with any Wiki organizational stuff if need be. I just want to see the product/engine progress - it's too damn fun to play, and too frustrating to work with :)
They are adding new features and improving the current ones. Little by little. And OGL is the only option for Spring.
Heh yeah, guess you could get the impression some things aren't thought of etc., lots of development talk happens through all kinds of communication channels so it can be kinda hard to follow 
About DirectX, may I mention that one of our current goals is to actually make spring crossplatform. So unless someone writes a patch abstracting the entire rendering system and makes an OpenGL and a DirectX implementation of the abstract interface it isn't gonna happen. Even then you're bound to the lowest common denominator for many features so you don't win anything... Also you're forgetting some operating systems.
And I actually thought you suggested rewriting the engine from scratch
but if that isn't what you mean then I agree... but first things first, we only got a handfull really active devs and many of these things you mention take a several weeks to a few months designing and coding for a single dev, esp. as we aren't full time developers...
E: A good link to follow engine progress
About DirectX, may I mention that one of our current goals is to actually make spring crossplatform. So unless someone writes a patch abstracting the entire rendering system and makes an OpenGL and a DirectX implementation of the abstract interface it isn't gonna happen. Even then you're bound to the lowest common denominator for many features so you don't win anything... Also you're forgetting some operating systems.
And I actually thought you suggested rewriting the engine from scratch
but if that isn't what you mean then I agree... but first things first, we only got a handfull really active devs and many of these things you mention take a several weeks to a few months designing and coding for a single dev, esp. as we aren't full time developers...E: A good link to follow engine progress
Thanks for the link, Tobi.
And yeah, I completely understand about the engine's development. I wasn't asking for these changes overnight. A networking mod team like this always needs more time, that's a given. I certainly wasn't asking for these things overnight. Like 6 months down the road is fine :)
Although also OpenGL, you may want to check out this engine:
http://www.luxinia.de/
One of the guys I know at Polycount made it.
Although the engine's source C code isn't open source, you can create anything you need in the Lua script, or as a DLL plugin. Maybe share ideas or something, I dunno. :)
And yeah, I completely understand about the engine's development. I wasn't asking for these changes overnight. A networking mod team like this always needs more time, that's a given. I certainly wasn't asking for these things overnight. Like 6 months down the road is fine :)
Although also OpenGL, you may want to check out this engine:
http://www.luxinia.de/
One of the guys I know at Polycount made it.
Although the engine's source C code isn't open source, you can create anything you need in the Lua script, or as a DLL plugin. Maybe share ideas or something, I dunno. :)
A lot of people do it. They quote an entire message for no reason. Quotes are meant to respond to specific points or to quote someone but there is no reason to reply with the entire quote of someone's text. However, if you are replying right below someone's post you do not need to quote the whole thing . That is how you are abusing the quotes.
I am not trying to single you out just that I am going to start pointing it out more often. So calm down.
I am not trying to single you out just that I am going to start pointing it out more often. So calm down.
smoth wrote:A lot of people do it. They quote an entire message for no reason. Quotes are meant to respond to specific points or to quote someone but there is no reason to reply with the entire quote of someone's text. However, if you are replying right below someone's post you do not need to quote the whole thing . That is how you are abusing the quotes.
I am not trying to single you out just that I am going to start pointing it out more often. So calm down.
*abuse*
I will not be told by you to calm down. Calm yourself down. 
