Absolute Annihilation 1.5

Lord JoNil · Post by **Lord JoNil** » 15 Jun 2006, 15:35

First Caydr i have to say you do a really good joob. Thanks.

The onley thing i'm really missing in AA is a ground attack submarine.

I also have a few suggestions for mutators. One that limits the game to T1 and another that limits the game to T2 and a third that prohibits any kind of construction exept the commander.

Ishach · Post by **Ishach** » 15 Jun 2006, 15:36

Afaik there is some way in the battle screen to set what units can be built n' such

But what AA REALLY needs is a mutator for a rapid-fire D-gun and only AKbots can be built...and the AKbots have Vulcan LRPC's instead of lazers

Acidd_UK · Post by **Acidd_UK** » 15 Jun 2006, 15:54

I was thinking about land attack subs recently too - they'd be a nice counter to plasma cannons along the coast etc. Plus they'd look sweeet.

wizard8873 · Post by **wizard8873** » 15 Jun 2006, 16:03

Caydr wrote:Uh.. Just to make sure, you know there's already a submersible transport like the one you mentioned? It's called an Intruder. Only Core's got one, so the clones are still screwed, but who cares about them. Being as you didn't even know it existed, it must not be much of a unit. Why don't you try them out and see what changes ought to be made to them?

hmm, well, i wouldn't say they're useless, i just don't play core so i never knew about it. still, i haven't seen them, nor other transport really used in games. increase their armor some so they can hold out longer and maybe they'll be used more often.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 15 Jun 2006, 17:13

ginekolog wrote:leave goliath, slow units are USELESS (dgun anyone?)

You only have one unit with a D-Gun, it can't be everywhere at once, and the big slow unit needs escorts.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 15 Jun 2006, 17:13

Ya know I had a thought, and just take it for what it is, nothing more...

One of the reasons that energy isn't more abundant in early and is a bit hard to attain even in late game some times is because of metal makers.

Caydr I know how much you hate metal makers so here is an idea for you... Make the metal generator available at lv1, and an output of .3 each so you need roughly 3 of them for almost 1 metal income. The way this helps is that energy does no longer need to be regulated so heavily.

You could also make the geovents make metal as well.. Like 3 for lv1 and 6 or so for lv2 in addition to the energy benefit. THis would increase the usefulness of geo's.

Just some random thoughts, but it seems that AA has to make a lot of exceptions on the economy level of things, and this would simplify the process a bit.

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 15 Jun 2006, 17:18

IMO AA does NOT need more big changes... it just needs to be fine tuned

ginekolog · Post by **ginekolog** » 15 Jun 2006, 17:20

NOiZE wrote:IMO AA does NOT need more big changes... it just needs to be fine tuned

word!

manytimes cydar makes changes just for the sake of it and ruins fragile balance!

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 15 Jun 2006, 17:29

The point I'm getting at is that atm is seems quite bloated with band-aids.

By that I mean that in balance issues instead of actually fixing the issues he has to put a band aid on it, a la, specific damages.

To someone who plays no RTS's but AA:Spring and kin, specific damages may sound like a good idea, but when you take a broader look at things you see it for what it is, a Band-Aid.

If I can get fang to help me I've been considering a huge mutator for AA. Dunno if I would actually do it. Kinda funny though, because some of the things would resemble TA pre CC. While CC was really awesome, it introduced some things that were not healthy for the gameplay, however it innovated some very good things as well, so the reasoning being that if you take the good and leave out the bad you end up with excellent gamplay.

I also believe that TA would benefit from looking at the good things present in other RTS's and mods.

Dunno if I'm willing to put the work in to make it happen though. I want to, but it would be a MOUNTAIN of work...

Edit: One that thing is disapointing is the fact that ideas and suggestions, even some that have merit get met with hostility, which sucks.

Imo, AA was much better back at version 1.13 barring core getting the shaft. When core got beefed I felt that the particular version was pretty much perfect for what it is. Even so, TA and AA in particular could use some slimming down.

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 15 Jun 2006, 18:14

@lord jonil, AFAIK ground attack submarines aren't possible in OTA or Spring. Unless you have proof (ie, a unit of this kind already functioning in another mod), just take this as gospel and don't question it: it cannot be done.

@Forboding, even if a suggestion is met with hostility from other users, I still consider it.

If you have a list of greivances with AA, post them. Tell me what you want to see done in order for it to be as close to perfect as possible in your eyes. What was it about 1.13 that you liked so much? Be specific. I have an open mind.

Dunno if I'm willing to put the work in to make it happen though. I want to, but it would be a MOUNTAIN of work...

Not to mention it'd get outdated and have to be completely redone for every new version.

krogothe · Post by **krogothe** » 15 Jun 2006, 18:35

I think youre doing a great job with AA. OP and UP units popping up as fast as we can play but at the same time very solid lvl1 kbots and fun gameplay.
Units like toasters/ambushers/anti-swarm lvl2 tower/caine and abel are pretty much useless in my eyes, their roles are still way too similar to other units and a buff would make them overpowered(except for the flamer tower, which still sucks donkey balls at lvl2). They need diversity or removal (which will be followed by bitching but hey youll always get it when removing even the shittest units)

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 15 Jun 2006, 18:48

Forboding, you really must understand... AA is not EE. Trying to make it EE is counterproductive.

Toasters/Ambushers do have a role - they're there to support other L2 defences. Like Pitbulls/Vipers, they'll survive a nuke strike, and can then support your other surviving defences.

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 15 Jun 2006, 18:57

Caydr, The Advanced attack subs and Seaplane gunships are horrible overpowered. The Serpent obsoletes everything and, with proper micro, is unkillable. Its torpedo weapon has longer range than its counter, and outranges all over subs. The seaplane gunships are horribly overpowered too. They are like floating HLTs for the arm for gods sake...

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 15 Jun 2006, 18:59

krogothe wrote:I think youre doing a great job with AA. OP and UP units popping up as fast as we can play but at the same time very solid lvl1 kbots and fun gameplay.
Units like toasters/ambushers/anti-swarm lvl2 tower/caine and abel are pretty much useless in my eyes, their roles are still way too similar to other units and a buff would make them overpowered(except for the flamer tower, which still sucks donkey balls at lvl2). They need diversity or removal (which will be followed by bitching but hey youll always get it when removing even the shittest units)

couldn't agree more

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 15 Jun 2006, 19:04

What, specifically, is wrong with Toasters/Ambushers? They're longer range and higher DPS than a Guardian/Punisher, are pretty much invincible to artillery fire, and are good at attacking tough, slow-moving units - IE, most of L2. I don't think they need radical changes to be effective.

I doubt the Abel/Caine would be a big loss. The L2 anti-swarm tower seems kind of silly - why would you ever want to use one instead of (say) a bunch of LLTs or an L1 anti-swarm tower? It's not like it handles tougher units better, and weaker units are primarily limited by space.

krogothe · Post by **krogothe** » 15 Jun 2006, 19:28

support other defenses in case you get nuked? thats noobspeak, sorry.
you get nuked youre fucked F-U-C-K-E-D unless youre playing against monkeys armed with pillows its all over over matey!
wanna kill big lvl2 use annis, wanna kill lvl1 use vipers. they are nothing but guardians with a fancy which that is off while it fires anyways making it effectively useless vs units unless you get nuked constantly, in which case you should stop playing speedmetal.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 15 Jun 2006, 19:33

krogothe wrote:support other defenses in case you get nuked? thats noobspeak, sorry.
you get nuked youre fucked F-U-C-K-E-D unless youre playing against monkeys armed with pillows its all over over matey!

You heard it from Krogothe first, folks. If the enemy hits you with a single Cruise Missile, you lose instantly.

Here's a tip, kroggie, since you don't seem to have very much experience: pop-up guns can survive the handful of cruise missile strikes (what is it, three?) or strat bomber runs it takes to kill an Annihilator. IIRC, the damage reduction also applies to paralyzing weapons, so they recover sooner from EMP bombs too. Now that you know this, perhaps you can keep playing instead of ragequitting because you think you're fucked F-U-C-K-E-D next time your enemy blows up an Annihilator with a CM or strat bomber strike.

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 15 Jun 2006, 19:38

O.o
Math time!

Nukes=/Cruise missles.

Thank you and goodnight!

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 15 Jun 2006, 19:39

No objections then to removing abel/caine/inferno?

The main purpose of the closing units is to protect them from LRPC fire and aircraft. They can also be set to hold fire (and therefore, close) and last indefinitely if there's a lot of artillery targetting one. And finally, what will an Annihilator do when faced with artillery behind a hill?

Machiosabre · Post by **Machiosabre** » 15 Jun 2006, 19:41

I'd like to atleast try the firestorm* with the higher turn rate.

Spring RTS Engine

Absolute Annihilation 1.5