Absolute Annihilation 1.5

KlavoHunter · Post by **KlavoHunter** » 12 Jun 2006, 04:10

Pxtl wrote:I have to apologize - I was the one who originally suggested "reformat the supersub into an underwater artillery unit" that could be easily overwhelmed by sub-killers... apparently this is causing all kinds of trouble. Still, i've always wanted a (very weak) depthcharge hover as a way to attack subs, and that would help. Even when torpedo bombers are fixed aircraft is never safe to rely on because they're so vulnerable to accidentally flying into flak fields or just getting picked off by screamer/mercury fire.

This "Artillery Submarine" thing would be nice, if it had a much longer reload time, and the torpedoes were unguided. As it stands now, the L3 sub is just an ungodly long-ranged killing machine which tears any ship to pieces.

Also: Would it perhaps be too much to ask for a water-based version of the Freaker/Consul, in that you can build some smaller units without a factory using it? As I'd like to be able to cruise up a few construction subs/planes/ships of some sort, and start plopping down amphibious tanks off the enemy's coast, instead of having to laboriously move some vulnerable, slow L1 Con Ships up, and then drop down an Amphibious Factory to make those tanks... at any point in which, your amphibious landing could be totally disrupted.

Oh. Increase the speed and acceleration of AA ships.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 12 Jun 2006, 04:32

Caydr wrote:Footprint issue probably.

I've encountered the same issue with a Mercury next to a Nuke Launcher... but at least the nuke didn't fly and impact on the Mercury.

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 12 Jun 2006, 04:42

KlavoHunter wrote:
Pxtl wrote:I have to apologize - I was the one who originally suggested "reformat the supersub into an underwater artillery unit" that could be easily overwhelmed by sub-killers... apparently this is causing all kinds of trouble. Still, i've always wanted a (very weak) depthcharge hover as a way to attack subs, and that would help. Even when torpedo bombers are fixed aircraft is never safe to rely on because they're so vulnerable to accidentally flying into flak fields or just getting picked off by screamer/mercury fire.
This "Artillery Submarine" thing would be nice, if it had a much longer reload time, and the torpedoes were unguided. As it stands now, the L3 sub is just an ungodly long-ranged killing machine which tears any ship to pieces.

Also: Would it perhaps be too much to ask for a water-based version of the Freaker/Consul, in that you can build some smaller units without a factory using it? As I'd like to be able to cruise up a few construction subs/planes/ships of some sort, and start plopping down amphibious tanks off the enemy's coast, instead of having to laboriously move some vulnerable, slow L1 Con Ships up, and then drop down an Amphibious Factory to make those tanks... at any point in which, your amphibious landing could be totally disrupted.

Oh. Increase the speed and acceleration of AA ships.

Hmm, well the L2 construction sub has a pretty short build list - perhaps those things could be added there? At the very least the L2 Consub should be able to build the amphib lab, since the amphib lab can build the Consub. Let the L2 Construction Sub build L1 attack subs and amphib tanks? It would only add 2 units to the consub list, and add some fun for the L2 consub, since most L2 constructors have a fun arsenal of armed buildings. Unfortunately, the consub is no faster than the con boat, but it is less vulnerable.

KlavoHunter · Post by **KlavoHunter** » 12 Jun 2006, 07:01

Pxtl wrote:Hmm, well the L2 construction sub has a pretty short build list - perhaps those things could be added there? At the very least the L2 Consub should be able to build the amphib lab, since the amphib lab can build the Consub. Let the L2 Construction Sub build L1 attack subs and amphib tanks? It would only add 2 units to the consub list, and add some fun for the L2 consub, since most L2 constructors have a fun arsenal of armed buildings. Unfortunately, the consub is no faster than the con boat, but it is less vulnerable.

The fact that it is underwater, compared to the Con Ship, greatly helps against air raids and shelling from shore. Which you would surely face if you were attempting a serious landing.

Rayden · Post by **Rayden** » 12 Jun 2006, 10:07

neddiedrow wrote:make hovercrafts more viable.

I agree a level 2 for hovercrafts would be great. I remember a mod in org TA where you had a Hovercraft Dreadnought. In fact it was a mobile weakended Annihilator, addionally you could add a medium anti-air rocket too.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 12 Jun 2006, 11:58

hovers are damn useful, countering fast moving floating targets is hard for most ships (without their depthcharge launcher its unlikely they are going to hit much)

ginekolog · Post by **ginekolog** » 12 Jun 2006, 13:25

hovers are usefull, i won many games with them. Great on maps as deltasiege or supcom etc.

What bothers me is maverick. It is still useless unit. i tried it cost per cost against zeus, fido, goliath, buldog. It looses really bad.

for unit that costs 900M it needs a) more health, lets say from 1200 to 1500 OR b)range, from 365 to 450 It still cant fire over units so wont bi too good imo.

Its DPS is 300 which is good but it just cant deliver it. 2 zeus have 300dps but 3500 heatlh!

LVL3 sub is much too good. Remove tracking torpedo to be real artilary sub

Aun · Post by **Aun** » 12 Jun 2006, 14:51

ginekolog wrote:hovers are usefull, i won many games with them. Great on maps as deltasiege or supcom etc.

What bothers me is maverick. It is still useless unit. i tried it cost per cost against zeus, fido, goliath, buldog. It looses really bad.

for unit that costs 900M it needs a) more health, lets say from 1200 to 1500 OR b)range, from 365 to 450 It still cant fire over units so wont bi too good imo.

Its DPS is 300 which is good but it just cant deliver it. 2 zeus have 300dps but 3500 heatlh!

LVL3 sub is much too good. Remove tracking torpedo to be real artilary sub

I've used them for mobile defence and they work quite nicely. Try pulling them back when get get down to 1/4 health. Their insane regen will quickly have them back in the battle.

Rayden · Post by **Rayden** » 12 Jun 2006, 15:56

What bothers me is maverick. It is still useless unit. i tried it cost per cost against zeus, fido, goliath, buldog. It looses really bad.

Maybe a faster fire rate would help, instead of more damage and hp this would make a valuable anti-swarm lvl2 unit.

Day · Post by **Day** » 12 Jun 2006, 16:04

the maverick is fine! just let zeus or fatboys tank for it so mavs can get close!

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 12 Jun 2006, 16:42

Min3mat wrote:hovers are damn useful, countering fast moving floating targets is hard for most ships (without their depthcharge launcher its unlikely they are going to hit much)

What about the deck laser? Does it do too little damage to be significant?

Also, I agree about the Maverick. It's fine. It works wonderfully for supporting fixed defences (and yes, that is necessary late-game) and "follow-ups" for damage caused by other units. (Once a handful are lose in a base, with only LLTs and a few anti-swarm weapons...)

ginekolog · Post by **ginekolog** » 12 Jun 2006, 17:17

mavs are not fine. Fidos(or zeus) does ALL things better cost wise. Fidos got range, speed, heatlh, damage + high traj. Wo why would i bould mav when i get 3 fidos? maybe only on metal map when limit is hit?

tech info: 3 fidos have 270 DPS, 4000 life and 600 range.
Mav: 266 DPS, 1200 life, 365 range

Mav costs 900, 3 fidos 1000.

BTW: toe to toe, 3 fidos kill mav without losses . Heck, mav wont even get a shot if player does a bit micro.

Soooo who is smart ass and chooses mav instead of fidos? Not me, ever. (oh and autoheal doesnt help much on low health unit.)

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 12 Jun 2006, 17:24

Maverick metal cost is probably too high, I'll reduce it a little.

edit: where are you GETTING this 900 metal cost? It's not even 700!

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 12 Jun 2006, 17:35

In earlier versions the Maverick was a god-unit. It was long-range + high speed, which means unkillable if micro'd. I guess now it's just become "expensive Fido with auto-repair". I think reducing the price is the best way to fix it, since changing any of it's stats risks bringing back it's nasty form.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 12 Jun 2006, 18:01

mmmh fidos do seem a bit weird atm, sort of a fast base assault unit really (although you can of course still skirmish with it) (obvioulsy its not as cost effective as the zeus but its a crapload faster :))

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 12 Jun 2006, 18:43

Min3mat wrote:mmmh fidos do seem a bit weird atm, sort of a fast base assault unit really (although you can of course still skirmish with it) (obvioulsy its not as cost effective as the zeus but its a crapload faster :))

Glad I'm not totally out to lunch here.

Actually, it's kind of nice. Before, I found Fidos kind of hard to use effectively. Now they're a very good early L2 unit or cheap/fast support for Zeuses. As long as it's not unbalanced, I'd like it if they could stay like this. They feel more Arm-y than Zeuses.

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 12 Jun 2006, 18:46

None of you seem to realise the Maverick does enough damage to kill a Level 1 kbot in 2 shots. Thats why it costs so much/low hp/hax whatever.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 12 Jun 2006, 19:28

Drone_Fragger wrote:None of you seem to realise the Maverick does enough damage to kill a Level 1 kbot in 2 shots. Thats why it costs so much/low hp/hax whatever.

ginekolog's numbers say that three Fidos are better at that. Especially now that they have an indirect-fire AoE weapon.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 12 Jun 2006, 19:41

Min3mat wrote:hovers are damn useful, countering fast moving floating targets is hard for most ships (without their depthcharge launcher its unlikely they are going to hit much)

They are fairly useful, but I contend that they haven't been given solid footing in the game. Yes, I use them. Yes, they are effective in some situations. No, they aren't usually viable. No, they aren't efficient.

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 12 Jun 2006, 20:07

There just aren't a lot of maps in the OTA style where hovers would be very useful yet. In OTA there were basically 3 elevations, with ramps inbetween: underwater, ground, high ground. This made it so that hovers could get onto any island and make a mess before the opponent could get his regular ground forces there.

Spring RTS Engine

Absolute Annihilation 1.5