Spring Discord is Hijacked

[Ares]

It has come to our attention that the Official Spring Engine discord has been Hijacked and renamed with admin transferred to Beherith and Forboding Angel. Neither of whom were the previous owner while it represented Official Spring.

It has always been Official policy that Official Spring assets belong to the Official Spring community. This act transfers control to an outside party without permission and harms the Official Spring Engine community.

Beherith's admin was removed from the Official Spring forum and Server due to his repeated malicious behaviour towards players and developers of the Official Engine. Forboding Angel did the commit to "Ruin BA so people will play Evo".

Hijacking the "SpringRTS engine" discord and renaming it, deprives the community of a space that has belonged to the community for years. You can find dead links to it throughout this forum in an attempted cover-up.

Additionally, this action results in players and developers who may have contributed towards the Official Engine being diverted into Beheriths' projects. Beherith may stand to financially benefit from this as his projects collects money through the sale of Merchendise. Simultaneously hampering support which could have gone towards official Spring Engine.

Consequently, Beherith is not aligned with the best interests of the official SpringRTS engine, its games or its developers. This action endangers the Spring engine and harms and hinders our players and community, in violation of his promise:

I have no beef with anyone in the BA community, its purely and only you

I respect the people who still play BA, and would never, and did never do anything to hinder their enjoyment of the game.

Immediately rename and return rightful ownership of the Official Spring Discord to users of the Official Spring Engine.

[raaar]

...Hijacked...Malicious...Outside party...Ruin...

Bombastic!
...but bullshit.

The rename happened about a year ago and I don't think the discord channel ownership even changed, they just renamed it to match the recoil engine fork as support for it was overwhelming, the fork devs used it and the few official spring devs with whom they had drama didn't.

Your accusations are out of touch with reality. There's only one community and 99% of people are using the same discord without issues. You're probably one of the few people banned from it.

I'm not sure what was the trigger this time and don't care anymore. With threads like these anyone has a hard time convincing the recoil admins that YOU are not malicious and so you're not forgiven and kept banned from their channels...

[Ares]

bullshit.

I don't think the discord channel ownership even changed

Ownership did change and I know who performed the transfer. They should have started a new Discord for their new engine, not hijack ours.

After it was transferred, it was renamed to hide its history of ever representing Official Spring. From the moment it was created until then, it has always been the Official Spring Engine discord. You can find links to it throughout this forum.

For the duration of its lifespan, this discord has always been a place for discussion of the Official Spring Engine. Regardless of your own personal bias since becoming a user of their Forked Engine (which you failed to disclose, and means you do not represent the best interests of the official Spring engine - infact the opposite).

The discord of the Official Spring Engine should clearly not be transferred to, renamed and taken over by an entirely seperate project. These facts are not up for debate or interpretation. It is Official Spring Engine policy.

Immediately return ownership of the Official Spring Engine discord to the users of the Official Spring Engine.

[raaar]

noun
noun: bullshit

stupid or untrue talk or writing; nonsense.

verb
verb: bullshit; 3rd person present: bullshits; past tense: bullshitted; past participle: bullshitted; gerund or present participle: bullshitting

talk nonsense to (someone) in an attempt to deceive them.

Reasons why your post is bullshit:

- Abma's an Official SpringRTS owner and rejected discord for chat in favour of matrix, as implied in this thread, namely viewtopic.php?p=607744#p607744 .

- The people effectively running the discord are the same as before, namely the engine devs actively helping people fix issues and most users. Your implication that it was maliciously stolen and taken away from some group is deceptive.

- The removal of references to the other project actually started from the spring side. It's stupid to give people no reasonable option but to fork then blame them for forking...Again, people not being "pure" doesn't mean they're malicious and tolerance goes both ways. I argued for restoring them, namely the chat bridge between the spring/recoil discord and matrix. Do you know why they removed it? It was because you were using it bypass a discord chat ban and attack them instead of making an effort to get along.

- You cherry pick past statements like the "Ruin BA so people will play Evo" that were done tongue-in-cheek and misrepresent people who were being constructive as malicious. Deceptive.

- You're trying to deceive people and pass as a spokesperson for people who've been drained from dealing with your drama and who you contributed to alienate.

- You act concerned about the future of the "Official Spring Engine", but by reviving past drama again and again instead of contributing to mend things you're getting in the way of the best (maybe the only reasonable) way forward for it, which means adopting recoil's engine. That is STUPID.

[Ares]

- Abma's an Official SpringRTS owner and rejected discord

False. 1 Abma has confirmed to me that Official Spring Engine Discord should belong to Official Spring Engine. This is the second time you have said things that are not true as if they were facts. That is a very deceptive thing to do.

- The people effectively running the discord are the same as before

False. 2 Ownership did change and from the moment it was created until then, it has always been the Official Spring Engine discord. They should have started a new Discord for their new engine, not hijack ours.

It's stupid to give people no reasonable option but to fork then blame them for forking

False. 3 When the Official Spring Engine dev rtri said "I hope the finish line stops moving" the fork engine dev kept doing more commits after being politely asked not to. This sabotaged the official engine by driving away our most important developer. Ivand then deleted the entire branch anyway and blamed the Official Spring for his own actions.

https://github.com/spring/spring/pull/559

"Ruin BA so people will play Evo" was tongue-in-cheek and "you" misrepresent people who were being constructive as malicious.

False. 4 These actors have a long history of harming other games and communities to get what they want. We can stop pretending "BA was banned for security reasons" now. Ask any real BA player what happened or an unbiased observer
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39392
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39689
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=43782

- You're trying to deceive people

False. 5 I have articulated all points to allow every reader to form their own judgement. Everything I write can be proven.

By calling me deceptive you attack my character rather than forming a valid argument. Yet you have shown willingless to use lies, and of the points you made, 5 were proven to be False or misleading. Astute readers will also notice how biased every one of your posts are.

pass as a spokesperson for people

Yes, Abma and I do represent the best interests of Official Spring. Whereas you are a spokesperson for a competing project, writing on a forum for an engine that you don't even use. Of the two of us, it is obvious who represents the interests of Official Spring Engine more.

The discord of the Official Spring Engine should clearly not be transferred to, renamed and taken over by an entirely seperate project. These facts are not up for debate or interpretation. It is Official Spring Engine policy.

Immediately return ownership of the Official Spring Engine discord to the users of the Official Spring Engine.

[raaar]

If the rename had been a big deal for the official engine devs, they'd have been more vocal against it at the time and/or would have created a new channel soon after.
We're talking about a niche channel with about a dozen devs and 100ish users (mostly veterans). Someone "official" could have easily posted there (best option since it's the same ecossystem) or created another channel and most of the interested parties would join.

Come on, face it Ares. Your main objective isn't to get an "Official Spring Engine discord" online, it's all about posing as important and publicly embarrassing those who you think wronged you.

I won't waste time nitpicking your attempts to misrepresent past events and people again. The (not-so-)astute reader may go through the trouble of reading your posts and be deceived into assuming that you're on to something and that there's been some evil conspiracies going on and most likely avoid this ecossystem, which is what makes you toxic.

I was wrong about defending you in the past Ares. Not engaging with you and your initiatives in any way and banning you on sight is probably the sane option.

I'll leave you with this thought experiment : Imagine, in a few years, a group of people carefully analyzing this project's history and assigning an award for the single person that had the biggest negative impact on it. I know it's unfair to assign it to any one person, but who do you think deserves that award?

[Ares]

I was wrong about defending you

I do not need to be defended. I will inform so everyone may reach their own conclusions. The truth will speak for itself.

banning you on sight is probably the sane option.

You are making a threat against me. As you are aware I am now Admin on the Official Spring server where your game resides and Beherith's Admin has been removed. The difference between you and I is that even though I have the power to ban your mod for making threats against me and using an unofficial engine version. I choose not to do it. Whereas in the past that is exactly what was done to BA.

However, your needless attacks against users of the Official Engine and their reputations, demonstrates that you are no longer a friend of BA or the Official Spring Engine. Consequently, your membership of BA discord and Official Spring Matrix is paused. Everyone will feel happier without negative people bringing us down and disrupting our mission of saving BA and Spring.

The discord of the Official Spring Engine should clearly not be transferred to, renamed and taken over by an entirely seperate project. These facts are not up for debate or interpretation. It is Official Spring Engine policy.


Immediately return ownership of the Official Spring Engine discord to the users of the Official Spring Engine.

[raaar]

Half a year ago on discord you wrote this

Ares — 06/23/2023 8:46 PM
needed a fresh start for positive mindset
like turning over a new leaf
i dont want to be tied to old negativity

Despite your constructive behavior as player, tournament organizer and maybe even BA maintainer, you clearly did not overcome your issues. Me and the overwhelming majority of informed people strongly disagree with your assessment of past events. Recurring, unrepentant spreading of misinformation to hurt the reputations of others is a serious offense.
In the case of major contributors, it's also stupid.

This makes you either dishonest, enormously obtuse, or both. I'll check but if you were indeed given admin rights, whoever did it had a major lapse in judgement.

In any case, if your intentions are constructive, tread lightly.

[Ares]

We must complete our mission of saving BA and Spring.

You do not care about our mission. Your poor treatment of users of the Official Spring Engine and constant attempts to damage our reputation are obvious. Additionally, you do not use the Official Spring Engine and are unaligned with the best interests of the Official Spring project. All of your points revolve around insulting others instead of constructive discussion.

In any case, if your intentions are constructive, tread lightly.

Further threats like this will be noted accordingly.

Allow unbiased members and users of the Official Spring Engine to respond.


Immediately return ownership of the Official Spring Engine discord to the users of the Official Spring Engine.

[raaar]

ah i hadn't noticed this part

Consequently, your membership of BA discord and Official Spring Matrix is paused. Everyone will feel happier without negative people bringing us down and disrupting our mission of saving BA and Spring.

I'm not concerned about BA. I'll check the "matrix" thing with the actual admins.

[Ares]

Don't worry, I will give you a second chance when the Official Spring Engine discord is returned to its users.

[raaar]

Congrats Ares, you've managed to temporarily block one of the last few direct contributors to the "Official SpringRTS Stuff" from the matrix bridge for the heinous crime of trying to stop you from ruining the forum's mood again with your public slandering crusade that offends 90% of the people that built this ecosystem. YOU are one of the reasons why they don't post here anymore.

Nope, no more second chances. You've had dozens. This forum is an important part of the public face of springrts.com, we shouldn't let this idiot run rampant here and misrepresent it.

At the very least Ares's power over anything related to springrts.com that isn't strictly BA should be immediately revoked. I support banning him outright from official forum too now and giving him a temp ban on the lobby server if/whenever he starts crusading there. Whatever he does here as part of the BA community can be done by someone else.

[Ares]

You do not use the Official Spring Engine and are unaligned with the best interests of the Official Spring project.

BA was banned for using an unofficial engine version. Yet, your mod doesn't even use the Official Engine version anymore. Do you still think games that use unofficial engine versions should be banned?

You are now just an unwitting puppet for an unofficial fork that has harmed our community and will only be satisfied with complete control and destruction of the last remaining assets of the Spring RTS Engine and the removal of its last remaining users.

Return ownership of the Official Spring Engine discord to the users of the Official Spring Engine.

[Sheekel]

Ares,

I dont know the whole story between BAR, Behe, Ares, etc.

But my dear sir, your posts come across as completely psychotic -- you must be very angry about something.

"Beherith may stand to financially benefit from this as his projects collects money through the sale of Merchendise. "

Beherith is someone who has put thousands of hours into Spring and now BAR. I can hardly imagine that he is motivated by money. He seems to genuinely love Spring and TA, and his passion and dedication shows in the quality of BAR.

I haven't been active on these forums for a long time, or played a game in a long time. But it seems like BAR is the future, and there are hundreds of active players and a thriving dev community. Frankly, it seems like Spring 2.0 and I am just happy to see that it is still providing joy and entertainment for a new generation of gamers, and for veterans who still love the game.

I'm sorry and I hope you can resolve your issues with BAR amicably. I think it is wrong to speak on behalf of the community of "Official Spring developers". Where is your developer tag? Would SJ, Fnordia, amba, trepan, imbaczek, Tobi, Kloot, jK...would any of them care? Would they not just be happy to see Spring alive and thriving in a new form?

That was the whole reason the original devs named the engine "Spring" in the first place (rebirth, regeneration)...

[Ares]

Would ... abma, Kloot ... ...would any of them care? Would they not just be happy to see Spring alive and thriving in a new form?

Hi Sheekel welcome back to the Spring RTS forum.

Yes Abma does care about this issue, that is why he has deleted Beheriths admin from the Spring forum and official server.

Kloot is rtri from my previous post. When Kloot said "I hope the finish line stops moving" Ivand kept doing more commits after being politely asked not. This sabotaged the official engine by driving away our most important developer and made a hostile fork. Ivand then deleted the entire branch anyway and blamed the Official Spring Engine for his own actions.https://github.com/spring/spring/pull/559

Currently BA uses the latest Spring engine and looks forward to migrating to Kloot's latest 106 engine. 106 engine is the future of Spring. You should join us for the next BA tournament!https://challonge.com/CROWN_CUP_9

However, we are going off subject. This thread is about returning ownership of the Official Spring Engine discord to the users of the Official Spring Engine. If you are in contact with someone who can do this for us that's appreciated, thank you!

[raaar]

Would ... abma, Kloot ... ...would any of them care? Would they not just be happy to see Spring alive and thriving in a new form?

(...)
Kloot is rtri from my previous post. When Kloot said "I hope the finish line stops moving" Ivand kept doing more commits after being politely asked not. This sabotaged the official engine by driving away our most important developer and made a hostile fork. Ivand then deleted the entire branch anyway and blamed the Official Spring Engine for his own actions.https://github.com/spring/spring/pull/559
(...)

This misrepresents what happened : I kept a clone of Ivand's PR branch and reopened a PR from it, https://github.com/spring/spring/pull/567 . Abma closed it soon after. There's always many degrees of freedom. They could have used Recoils code as a base and cherry pick changes from the 106 develop branch back into it instead of the other way around, or officially endorsed the Recoil releases and hosted the source on a separate branch. Differences in build process etc. could have been worked around, etc..

It'd have been better for the community to have the engine developers working on the same code base. Keeping the "brand" consistent would also have been better, but Abma and Kloot went against the wishes of most people and bet on the wrong horse then. Even with the "Recoil" rebranding springrts.com can still have a role as a hub of useful services that helps keep the community together.

The nonsense we have here is Ares cherry-picking past history to amplify past grievances instead of trying to mend them. I bet that the BA community probably 90+% plays BAR using the Recoil engine (probably including Ares himself). Ares has the nerve to present himself as a spokesperson for Abma and Kloot when a few years ago he was crusading against them for the 103.0 engine restriction which he keeps misrepresenting as "BA ban" and was one of the ringleaders pushing people to boycott the official server and the BA version that was compatible with 104.0+.

Ares is the one hijacking the forum for his personal feuds, not the Recoil community, which is the same as the Spring RTS community and also the BA community (through BAR).

I've created a simple discord server for spring RTS with links to official stuff as well as Recoil site and game discords. Hopefully we'll get the bridged channels to move there too
https://discord.gg/3TxYJ3fRya

I've also created two issues on mantis
0006468: update list of springrts.com staff/moderators
0006469: simplify/improve support chat systems (discord/matrix), bridges and references

[Ares]

This is a simple and reasonable request to return the Spring discord to its users.

Raaar you can always migrate your game to the Spring Engine. It will be great to have you back.

I have spoken with Abma. The developers of the Spring Engine have confirmed the Official Spring Engine Discord should still belong to Official Spring. If you are in contact with someone who can do this for us that's appreciated, thank you!

[raaar]

Reverting of the discord server's not going to happen. Asking for it when it was renamed may have been reasonable, now it's just trolling.

The users are still there. You'd be there too if you weren't a drama queen.

Also, Abma can speak for himself here. You don't represent him.

If you had contributed for a better understanding between Abma, Ivand, etc. over the past 6 years instead of amplifying the drama (as you're doing now), things may have turned out better.

[Ares]

I have spoken with Abma. You should make a new discord for your new fork.

If you want to be a seperate engine make your own seperate discord. Don't selfishly try to take over one belonging to Spring. Remember your fork wouldn't exist without Spring. It's the least you can do to show some respect.