Sometimes co-operation is difficult

[abma]

to convert .sdp to .zip use MakeZip from RapidTools:

http://springrts.com/wiki/RapidTools#MakeZip

(very likely compiles only on linux atm)

No offense, but how in the hell is that supposed to be useful/helpful to a windows user?

a windows user can compile/fix it. i guess i don't understand the question.

[smoth]

Jools, let me tell you what my conclusion is:

Nobody really wants this to work, stop trying. Compared to most other game engines out there, spring is not used, spring games don't have a lot of players, there are not a lot of people involved, etc. It's gonna be a long time (if ever) before the spring project as a whole matures, until then take it as it is, it has potential. Writing docs takes time, somebody's time.

I like reading posts like this(sarcasm for those who are dense), really makes all the years of effort I put into this community and engine feel appreciated.

So jools was this thread created to get help or for your own personal lulz?

[code_man]

Seems a bit ironic considering the wiki acutally uses google as backend search.

Its known there is a bit of chism between game and engine devs, but its harsh to say engine devs work against gamedevs, theyre a bit more occupied with hard stuff and probably just dont have energy left to do much documentation.

Anyway i do agree the wiki could use alot more documentation, its very minimalistic as it is.

[FLOZi]

Lots of complaints, little contributions.

[Silentwings]

Personally I find the wiki very helpful (especially since, 2 years after I started using it, I discovered the search function xD) and it's mostly what I learned from. I have no idea where the whole "engine devs should write all the wiki" mentality came from, but tbh (1) not gonna happen and (2) wtf why only them... so ++contributions from all imo.

[gajop]

Lots of complaints, little contributions.

Well said. We should listen more to a person that's actually working on the wiki ^

[smoth]

I fully intended on helping Jools get an answer but am still unsure of his question. I asked followup stuff and all :\

[knorke]

wiki is written by people who do not need it for people who do not read it.

That does not just mean the people who ask questions but those who answer even more. Often something could be answered clearly with link to wiki but instead some myth is posted.
Some answers in this thread: "just read the docs" & "use the command line."
How are such replies helpful? How about posting what to type into command line or at least say the commandline of which program?
Such vague replies often miss things, for example how in this case the docs were incomplete or that pr-downloader is not the same as rapid.exe.

[Jools]

I wrote a long reply to this thread, but it was lost because of chrome's backspace key triggers back navigation. Also I thought I'd wait to let others speak.

Some answers:

1. Yes, I had rapid wiki page opened instead of pr-downloader one:

I don't think the wiki is bad, it's actually very good. But the index is confusing, there are many pages that are not listed in the index and instead you have to know the url. Pr-downloader is one example of such page, lups is another. There are many more.

2. Why not just "download zip" from the github page?

Because I didn't know you could do this. I thought this was the source code and extra junk (it's titled xxx-master, doesn't sound like a released version).

3. Why is this thread title so vaguegeneral

To be able to cover all related stuff. But yes, the title is not good and in retrospect I should have come ip with something more positive

4. About blaming devs

I don't think only the devs should be responsible for the documentation, I never said that, it was something that someone came up with during the course of this thread. Of course it would be easiest if he who writes the code writes a short changelog. It is difficult for someone external to do that.

5. The issue

There's a lot of talk that the devs do a lot of free work and receive no thanks for it. I am very grateful for all the work, and yes, sometimes I forget to say thank you. But realise also that writing bugreports is also free work, and that it actually contributes to the project. Yet, many of these are often labelled as "not constructive" or "off-topic" (the fact that moderators don't agree to what the topic is is actually one of the greatest problems we have in my opinion). I don't think I remember any single time when someone has said "Thank you for the bug report". Not to me or anyone else. Yes, the reports could be written in a more positive way, not saying that.

I'm sure most if not all moderators were very good when they once were appointed, and they are all very nice people, but most have been in their position too long time, so they have become motion blind in my opinion. Just look in this thread about how users respond and how moderators do.

It's not good when moderators are not doing what they are supposed to do (keep the forums clean and the climate friendly and civil), but now instead they have their own agenda, which is minimise opinions that complicate development by finding problems. And this is not good. maybe it's because many of the moderators are also some kind of devs.

It is also not clear how new moderators are appointed and by whom. It would be fruitful to appoint some new ones, or even re-appoint the same ones again, to make them better represent the community.

[abma]

I don't think I remember any single time when someone has said "Thank you for the bug report". Not to me or anyone else. Yes, the reports could be written in a more positive way, not saying that.

1. http://springrts.com/mantis/search.php? ... tch_type=0



2. also you didn't answer my question:

also, what is your exact problem?

3. a note to this:

But the index is confusing, there are many pages that are not listed in the index and instead you have to know the url. Pr-downloader is one example of such page, lups is another. There are many more.

if you miss an index in the wiki, use the "categories", for pr-downloader, etc: http://springrts.com/wiki/Category:Download_Systems for example which is linked from the pr-downloader page.

[Jools]

How about making an index A-Z of pages in wiki? That would be a long page but it would allow searching for key words in the title easily.

[abma]

How about making an index A-Z of pages in wiki? That would be a long page but it would allow searching for key words in the title easily.

learn to use mediawiki!

http://springrts.com/wiki/Special:AllPages
or
http://springrts.com/wiki/Special:Search

@jools:

what is your problem?

[FLOZi]

if you miss an index in the wiki, use the "categories", for pr-downloader, etc: http://springrts.com/wiki/Category:Download_Systems for example which is linked from the pr-downloader page.

This. The category system was designed for ease of navigation, c.f.: http://springrts.com/wiki/Spring:CategoryStructure

[smoth]

Jools: a quick point about the grab zip on github's site. Some of the projects have dependencies which typically require a recursive pull param added. The zip doesn't do that, you should either get the commandline and build a .bat library or get the gui tool.

[abma]

this exists as well:

http://lups.repo.springrts.com/builds/

[Jools]

That's good, now that's what I was looking for. TY.

[Forboding Angel]

I wrote a long reply to this thread, but it was lost because of chrome's backspace key triggers back navigation. Also I thought I'd wait to let others speak.

SIlly nubcake: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/deta ... p-launcher

[Jools]

Thank you, but I already thought I had solved the issue with a backspace blocker extension. But alas, for me chrome resets all extensions when it (silently) updates. It's really annoying.

[enetheru]

I check the wiki change log pretty frequently, Jools, if I dont see your name in that lIst soon, what am I to think?