[Derail] Standalone Featureplacer Chili Discussion

[Jools]

Why does FP need to be bloated with LUPS and Chili? Why not just FP?

[Funkencool]

Why does FP need to be bloated with LUPS and Chili? Why not just FP?

I honestly don't understand why you would consider them bloat. They are both extremely useful libraries to include with anything you want to look remotely good or at least modern.

[Forboding Angel]

Not to mention the fact that proper UI can't really be done without it (without a shitload of duplicate labor). As examples, I point to every project not using chili and their subsequent UI mess.

I agree that it would be better off on github (whoever thought I'd say that )

The problem you suggest wrt having many FP features available that you want to ignore is readily fixed by filtering - as you point out an improvement to the UI. I am thinking about FP as part of ToolBox and the dependency chain inherent there - as well as discussing with Smoth what improvements he made.


At the end of the day we all want the same thing - an effective tool. I am interested both in the short term of what is currently available and the longer term of what is possible. Please can we take the blame game elsewhere.

I only haven't moved it to github out of sheer laziness. That and I knew smoth had a much more advanced version he was working on (Ideally what he is or was working on would have completely replaced what I had in the repo, but it hasn't materialized yet).

Also, flozi, that was a chickenshit warning. Knorke can say "Git gud" to me about lua, but I can't say the same thing to him (or even you) about mapping without a warning? Pot meet kettle.

If you took that seriously vs yourself, Flozi, then you took it way more seriously than was intended. Vs knorke, all seriousness intended.

Edit: SMoth, I pulled FP out of evo a long time ago.


gajop: User was warned for this post: Backseat moderation.
Also since 3 warnings = 1 week ban, sigh.

[Jools]

Why does FP need to be bloated with LUPS and Chili? Why not just FP?

I honestly don't understand why you would consider them bloat. They are both extremely useful libraries to include with anything you want to look remotely good or at least modern.

Because it's a feature placer, a tool. Who cares what the UI looks like, and the look of the UI in the tool, as opposed to what some people believe, doesn't translate into the look of the map.

Isn't this the same reason why you linux people consider windows bloated as well?

[smoth]

Why does FP need to be bloated with LUPS and Chili? Why not just FP?

I honestly don't understand why you would consider them bloat. They are both extremely useful libraries to include with anything you want to look remotely good or at least modern.

Because it's a feature placer, a tool. Who cares what the UI looks like, and the look of the UI in the tool, as opposed to what some people believe, doesn't translate into the look of the map.

So you are going to argue chili not even going to argue LUPS which IS included for visuals that I HAVE NOT EVEN IMPLEMENTED YET.

This isn't up for discussion. Chili makes developing an effective gui much faster. I know, I used to do the whole pure GL texrect call stuff. Without chili doing some of the gui stuff that I have done would be 3-4 times more time consuming. By using chili I get acess to working code with less LOC instead of having to bloat my code with yet another implementation of a click-able button.

Isn't this the same reason why you linux people consider windows bloated as well?

False dichotomy.

Oh also this is tool for ARTISTS not coders. Even if it was used by only coders, no coder worth his salt would argue against using a gui framework to expedite development of a visual project. We are not talking about a coding tool we are talking about something that is taking the process of placing an object at location and making it easy. Even the most basic things such as a scrollable window or progressbar are a pain to work on and MAJORLY bloat your code, hurt readability and create inconsistencies which inevitably lead to bugs. That is why you break things into libraries to begin with. You know better.

[Silentwings]

Why does FP need to be bloated with LUPS and Chili? Why not just FP?

I honestly don't understand why you would consider them bloat. They are both extremely useful libraries to include with anything you want to look remotely good or at least modern.

+1. The features themselves can make use of LUPS. Writing & maintaining UIs with chili is super fast/nice; no alternative comes close.

[Jools]

Well that's not a fact, just your opinion.

[Silentwings]

According to what's written in this thread, it is broadly speaking the shared "opinion" of myself, Funkencool, smoth, Forb and gajop, all of whom regard it as fact. You are of course welcome to voice your own contradictory opinion.

[Jools]

Yes, that's better.

My (limited) experience of Chili is that it complicates code, makes it slower, is about as easy to assemble as an IKEA furniture, and errors when you try it. Now, if I've written my own code, it's easier to find that error. But to hunt for errors in a library is much more complicated — especially if what I wanted was a simple thing such as a progress bar.

[Silentwings]

Ok, I think we can part ways at this point. (I am able to assemble flat pack furniture without difficulty.)

[gajop]

Feel free to share your Chili Experience (tm) in greater detail (in another thread) and we'll see what we can do about it.

People are of course free to use what they want, and it's mostly smoth's & to a certain extent FA's opinion that matters in this case.

[Jools]

I can too if
i) I have a partner,
ii) i have the manual (with text and not funny pictures) and
iii) I have all pieces available.

Yes, that's not really about IKEA.

Also, maybe I'm wrong on the performance issues, but then that's hardly an issue for a a tool. I can't imagine a mapmaking tool maxing out the GPU.

[Jools]

Oh also this is tool for ARTISTS not coders.

Oh, but we have none in spring. It would be nice if we could have some professional ones.

Definition of professional artist = person who uses Mac OS on his everyday work computer.


abma:user was warned for this post:

it is off-topic, non constructive, probably offensive and almost certainly wrong. (and also not funny)

[Anarchid]

Oh, but we have none in spring. It would be nice if we could have some professional ones.

"We have no artists because they don't like our tools. So, see, this is why we don't need tools for artists"

[smoth]

Why are you continuing to derail what was a productive thread with borderline trolling such as that? Look you don't like chili or question it's performance. That is fine. I answered your question and now you are moving the goalpost with baiting comments like how all artists only use macs. Seriously can a mod please split this derail off?

[Jools]

Ok, fine, I will stop writing in this forum and helping people, as it's apparently not appreciated.

But just the fact that doubting some self-proclaimed artists causes people to be butt-hurt, just proves my point.

[abma]

Ok, fine, I will stop writing in this forum and helping people, as it's apparently not appreciated.

if you do, please follow the forum rules... this thread is gone totally off-topic. basicly it was about standalone featureplacer.

But just the fact that doubting some self-proclaimed artists causes people to be butt-hurt, just proves my point.

that should earn a warning, too.

[smoth]

If you think being an artist requires a degree or job you don't know about art.

*edit* also nothing who you have posted in this thread has been helpful. Your critical view of chili has been based on ignorance and feeling rather than data and knowledge/educated views. So stop playing the victim

[Jools]

I didn't say it requires a degree or a job. I said it requires that you use mac.

It does however require that you can take criticism too. Artists get a lot of that.

[PicassoCT]

Cool im not a artist..
only mac i ever had was big..

Honestly can we drop the clichees for a sec..
I think every side has a certain right to exist, and even more suprising, you can walk into the other sides territory. And return to tell the tale.

Have you guys looked at the "Map Making" they used for the "Vannisihing of Even Carter"?

Basically photos, pointmodells and that all glued to features..
We could train our stock of great outdoors fans to make features..