"Keep it Simple, Stupid"
Ever heard of it?
A lot of people seem to be asking for upgradable mexes...
Moderator: Moderators
I think the idea is really tryign to grab at another idea btu going about it totally wrong.
What you really want and would be much mroe useful is somehtign along the lines of:
hold a button and you can place a building down anywhere and it will reclaim existing buildings that get in the way.
Like lets say we define a hotkey to do this, I dunno '#' that seems clsoe enough to shfit ctrl alt etc...
It's much easier to implement has the same effect and has uses outside of replacing mexes and geothermals, it's simple, and it's not requiring the modder to define masses of stuff if they do lots of mex and geo variations.
That and the original proposition was absurd to begin with by limiting it and making it the way it was put out.
It's like the car designer who was told by the client to put silver stripes on the edge, when silver stripes wasnt what the client wanted at all, they wanted it to look faster and though silver stripes would do the job. (silver stripes? wtf)
What you really want and would be much mroe useful is somehtign along the lines of:
hold a button and you can place a building down anywhere and it will reclaim existing buildings that get in the way.
Like lets say we define a hotkey to do this, I dunno '#' that seems clsoe enough to shfit ctrl alt etc...
It's much easier to implement has the same effect and has uses outside of replacing mexes and geothermals, it's simple, and it's not requiring the modder to define masses of stuff if they do lots of mex and geo variations.
That and the original proposition was absurd to begin with by limiting it and making it the way it was put out.
It's like the car designer who was told by the client to put silver stripes on the edge, when silver stripes wasnt what the client wanted at all, they wanted it to look faster and though silver stripes would do the job. (silver stripes? wtf)
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smokingwreckage
- Posts: 327
- Joined: 09 Apr 2005, 11:40
mexes
I like it the way it is, I been playing for a while and have almost never had to reclaim a factory and build lev 2 on top, why cant you just reclaim and start your new build at the same time right next to it? or just shift click reclaim orders on whatever buildings you want to remove to make space etc... it takes like a millisecond...
and as for mexes just self d the buggers and build a moho, or build the moho right by your level 1 mex... lazy, lazy ,lazy it takes about 3 clicks...
It's gonna get to the point where everything has a shortcut/hotkey and there will be no skill in micro managing your economy... which is just as important as micro managing your forces its what divides the good players from the really good...
and as for mexes just self d the buggers and build a moho, or build the moho right by your level 1 mex... lazy, lazy ,lazy it takes about 3 clicks...
It's gonna get to the point where everything has a shortcut/hotkey and there will be no skill in micro managing your economy... which is just as important as micro managing your forces its what divides the good players from the really good...
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Lindir The Green
- Posts: 815
- Joined: 04 May 2005, 15:09
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
Chocapic is 100% correct 
I know order ques end when you try to build on land that isnt reclaimed...
just reclaim first and build when its gone... it takes 2 extra clicks, 1 to select your building and 1 to place it hehe... cmon Im sure developers would want to spend time on other more important stuff than saving you from clicking your mouse twice,
Swiftspear wrote
"The whole point of this suggestion is making a build order that allows us to build mohos on top of mex locations without killing our order queues."
Just self d 2 mexes and que two mohos and repeat - or if playing a large extraction radius map... just build mohos next to your level1 mexes.
I thought you were a fan of micromanaging swifty? :)
I like the fact you cant instantly start converting everything to moho in a 3 clicks...
I know order ques end when you try to build on land that isnt reclaimed...
just reclaim first and build when its gone... it takes 2 extra clicks, 1 to select your building and 1 to place it hehe... cmon Im sure developers would want to spend time on other more important stuff than saving you from clicking your mouse twice,
Swiftspear wrote
"The whole point of this suggestion is making a build order that allows us to build mohos on top of mex locations without killing our order queues."
Just self d 2 mexes and que two mohos and repeat - or if playing a large extraction radius map... just build mohos next to your level1 mexes.
I thought you were a fan of micromanaging swifty? :)
I like the fact you cant instantly start converting everything to moho in a 3 clicks...
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Doomweaver
- Posts: 704
- Joined: 30 Oct 2004, 14:14
It's a pain in the arse to have to set the order, and then return to it in exactly the right amount of time so thatBigSteve wrote:Chocapic is 100% correct
I know order ques end when you try to build on land that isnt reclaimed...
just reclaim first and build when its gone... it takes 2 extra clicks, 1 to select your building and 1 to place it hehe... cmon Im sure developers would want to spend time on other more important stuff than saving you from clicking your mouse twice,
Swiftspear wrote
"The whole point of this suggestion is making a build order that allows us to build mohos on top of mex locations without killing our order queues."
Just self d 2 mexes and que two mohos and repeat - or if playing a large extraction radius map... just build mohos next to your level1 mexes.
I thought you were a fan of micromanaging swifty? :)
I like the fact you cant instantly start converting everything to moho in a 3 clicks...
a; Your con Kbot is not wasting time, it is immediately building.
b; You are not wasting time waiting for the Con KBot to do its thing.
It's pretty obvious if you think about it that this feature would not detract from the skill in the game.
Does making the GUI more effictive reduce the amound of micromanage you have to do?
Saying that the diffrence between newbies and good guys is a argument against easy mex-replacement, what kind of person are you!
And yes, 2 extra clicks does makes a differ. And self-D your mex isn't lovely, concidering the enviorment the mex sometimes is located. Not to mention is some mods it really takes 5 sec (10 sec when the game is at .5 speed) to self-D a mex.
And if the dev's don't like the idea's, then they won't make it. It's our task to spawn (partially-silly) suggestions, isn't it?
Saying that the diffrence between newbies and good guys is a argument against easy mex-replacement, what kind of person are you!
And yes, 2 extra clicks does makes a differ. And self-D your mex isn't lovely, concidering the enviorment the mex sometimes is located. Not to mention is some mods it really takes 5 sec (10 sec when the game is at .5 speed) to self-D a mex.
And if the dev's don't like the idea's, then they won't make it. It's our task to spawn (partially-silly) suggestions, isn't it?
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
I'm a fan of logical micromanagement. I've said many times before that game devs shoudn't add confusing or unnessicary micromanagement when it isn't a feature or logically in line with the game. We could add alot of micromanagement by forcing a player to click all 4 corners of the screen once before initiating every order, but it would still make the game retarded.
Yep
I think fundamentally the best approach is to allow the player to order a construction unit to build something unbuildable. Some way to say "Yes, I know that there's a mexx there - just go build the damn thing anyways, it'll be gone by the time you start building the moho".
Exactly...NOiZE wrote:how about holding alt while placing a moho onto a mex will automatic reclaim it, otherwise it won't
limiting it to mexes actually makes it harder to implement. Just make it so when a build order is issued with alt, everything under its footprint is reclaimed before the order is executed, including features and buildings.
Do what SJ says if you really want it, personally i dont really care too much about that function...
bleh
Doomweaver said
"It's pretty obvious if you think about it that this feature would not detract from the skill in the game."
hmmm I really dont agree, making sure your economy / factory construction is running smoothly is the most important aspect of the game...
Also one other moan...
Zenka said
"Does making the GUI more effictive reduce the amound of micromanage you have to do?
Saying that the diffrence between newbies and good guys is a argument against easy mex-replacement, what kind of person are you!
Err if you actually read my post..... You'll find I said the its the difference between the good and the really good players - not noobs and veterans for godsake read what I've written before you try to make me look like an idiot :)
I agree with you swifty, Im a fan of logical micro too, but I dont really feel that not having an auto reclaim/build button is illogical, to me it just makes the game more intense as theres more stuff to manage,
Im not having a go at you guys... Zenka is right we are here to put forward ideas to the devs, Im just saying I dont think this one is necessary.
Noizes idea however is by far the best suggestion, the little alt click thing is a great idea, I dont want it though cos Im still working on having the fastest mex placement clicking finger in the west! :)
Clicking all 4 corners of the screen before placing an order sounds like fun though....
"It's pretty obvious if you think about it that this feature would not detract from the skill in the game."
hmmm I really dont agree, making sure your economy / factory construction is running smoothly is the most important aspect of the game...
Also one other moan...
Zenka said
"Does making the GUI more effictive reduce the amound of micromanage you have to do?
Saying that the diffrence between newbies and good guys is a argument against easy mex-replacement, what kind of person are you!
Err if you actually read my post..... You'll find I said the its the difference between the good and the really good players - not noobs and veterans for godsake read what I've written before you try to make me look like an idiot :)
I agree with you swifty, Im a fan of logical micro too, but I dont really feel that not having an auto reclaim/build button is illogical, to me it just makes the game more intense as theres more stuff to manage,
Im not having a go at you guys... Zenka is right we are here to put forward ideas to the devs, Im just saying I dont think this one is necessary.
Noizes idea however is by far the best suggestion, the little alt click thing is a great idea, I dont want it though cos Im still working on having the fastest mex placement clicking finger in the west! :)
Clicking all 4 corners of the screen before placing an order sounds like fun though....
Alternately, there's the simplest solution: eliminate the concept of "I can't build there" completely from the UI. Have the indicator so the player can _see_ that they can't build there, but if they try anyways the unit will attempt to do so.
After all, you can schedule conflicting construction plans, you can build out of sight in places that do, in fact, have blocking units you just don't know about. Preventing players from building unbuildable units is just silly handholding. Just let them try, have the UI show them that it's impossible, and let the unit go off on it's merry way and tell them "target location is blocked" if it's impossible.
Although an "area reclaim" feature would be handy too.
Either way: in short, the alt-key is redundant. Just eliminate the (incomplete, annoying, useless) hand-holding of disallowing ordering a con to build in a blocked position. And give us a good "area reclaim" (if there isn't one already that I haven't seen) for quick resource claiming and clearing land for large construction projects.
After all, you can schedule conflicting construction plans, you can build out of sight in places that do, in fact, have blocking units you just don't know about. Preventing players from building unbuildable units is just silly handholding. Just let them try, have the UI show them that it's impossible, and let the unit go off on it's merry way and tell them "target location is blocked" if it's impossible.
Although an "area reclaim" feature would be handy too.
Either way: in short, the alt-key is redundant. Just eliminate the (incomplete, annoying, useless) hand-holding of disallowing ordering a con to build in a blocked position. And give us a good "area reclaim" (if there isn't one already that I haven't seen) for quick resource claiming and clearing land for large construction projects.