Least used units?

[FaerieWithBoots]

Core arty does have a better chance to survive against one or two raiding Kbots (pyro/warrior) then luger. At close range the core arty will hit most defenitly throwing the raider back to the base it came from. Luger cant do that, and will most likely die if you send two pyros/warriors at it.

[Tribulex]

lol at noruaspowers

[step]

But this is the only good long range Core L2 vehicle unit. It costs almost like Sumo and two tanks, and it is a pity that it is so brutally castrated. I propose ether to decrease it cost to 1.5 K as somebody already mentioned, or make it fire two time quicker to make a plasma rain. Hitting commander with it should be not very probable, since it is very inaccurate. But bombarding big areas of land should be easy.

[FaerieWithBoots]

ehm... making core arty fire twice as fast ... thats like a mobile buzzsaw (kinda)

[step]

ehm... making core arty fire twice as fast ... thats like a mobile buzzsaw (kinda)

But it will, of course, require more energy and it is very inaccurate, so the commander could just run away from it, but the HLTs cannot.

[step]

Ok sorry for the lolpost.

Impulse on Core arti owns commanders (and everything else) in a way that nothing Arm has can.

Because it is inaccurate one will have to shoot about 10 times to get the commander, while 2 snipers (which cost as arti) will kill him in second shot, which is 28 second of brave commander life compared to
6.66*10=66 seconds, plus minus some random deviation.
So it sucks anyway. Of course I have chosen the number of 10 shots
arbitrary, but I think it is close to that.

[JohannesH]

Ok sorry for the lolpost.

Impulse on Core arti owns commanders (and everything else) in a way that nothing Arm has can.

Because it is inaccurate one will have to shoot about 10 times to get the commander, while 2 snipers (which cost as arti) will kill him in second shot, which is 28 second of brave commander life compared to
6.66*10=66 seconds, plus minus some random deviation.
So it sucks anyway. Of course I have chosen the number of 10 shots
arbitrary, but I think it is close to that.

ok so dont play core - your problem is solved

[step]

Ok sorry for the lolpost.

Impulse on Core arti owns commanders (and everything else) in a way that nothing Arm has can.

Because it is inaccurate one will have to shoot about 10 times to get the commander, while 2 snipers (which cost as arti) will kill him in second shot, which is 28 second of brave commander life compared to
6.66*10=66 seconds, plus minus some random deviation.
So it sucks anyway. Of course I have chosen the number of 10 shots
arbitrary, but I think it is close to that.

ok so dont play core - your problem is solved

Hi Babs. I don't play at all now. But I would like to return

[Tribulex]

Um, isnt core t2 arty rather epic and powerful? I make it all the time, and it leads my men to victory. Its one of the reasons I tend to go core.

[Jools]

Yes it is, if you have a critical number of them. That applies to many spring units, and so comparing them in a one by one fashion doesn't give you a good over all picture.

[pintle]

Ok sorry for the lolpost.

Impulse on Core arti owns commanders (and everything else) in a way that nothing Arm has can.

Because it is inaccurate one will have to shoot about 10 times to get the commander, while 2 snipers (which cost as arti) will kill him in second shot, which is 28 second of brave commander life compared to
6.66*10=66 seconds, plus minus some random deviation.
So it sucks anyway. Of course I have chosen the number of 10 shots
arbitrary, but I think it is close to that.

10 shots is a massive, completely inaccurate, assumption.

This is exactly why I posted my earlier statement. You conjure up completely erroneous statistics and then present them as some scientific model, completely flying in the face of the abundantly obvious empirical evidence. Try actually playing the game, gaining some sensory feedback, mulling it over, then commenting on game balance.

Snipers have special damage vs Coms, it is not a 2 shot kill. Is there a single assertion that you made which relates to what is actually true?

[babbles]

Hi Babs. I don't play at all now. But I would like to return

that's not me...

also, compare core arty with pene, if you make it cost 1.5k, it's less than pene...

edit:

right, basically what you have to understand is it's inaccurate because of its wtf pwn ability. it can nearly 1 hit a comm, depending the the exp/morph level of comm and gravity of the map it can, many times.

now the cost, you reduce that and it eliminates the poor inaccuracy as you can have many for cheap...

you may say get rid of the damage/aoe for improved accuracy/cost efficiency but then you take away the entire point of the unit itself

It's meant to be a slow and bumbling inaccurate huge damage piece of artillery, take that away and it's useless, improve it and it's op

[Tribulex]

Babbles for God

[Gota]

I suggest an hp buff for it.

[step]

Ok sorry for the lolpost.

Impulse on Core arti owns commanders (and everything else) in a way that nothing Arm has can.

Because it is inaccurate one will have to shoot about 10 times to get the commander, while 2 snipers (which cost as arti) will kill him in second shot, which is 28 second of brave commander life compared to
6.66*10=66 seconds, plus minus some random deviation.
So it sucks anyway. Of course I have chosen the number of 10 shots
arbitrary, but I think it is close to that.

10 shots is a massive, completely inaccurate, assumption.

This is exactly why I posted my earlier statement. You conjure up completely erroneous statistics and then present them as some scientific model, completely flying in the face of the abundantly obvious empirical evidence. Try actually playing the game, gaining some sensory feedback, mulling it over, then commenting on game balance.

Snipers have special damage vs Coms, it is not a 2 shot kill. Is there a single assertion that you made which relates to what is actually true?

Ok. Maybe you can make an experiment? Put an ik at maximal range and try ten times to kill it by core arty, then count the average number of shots needed to kill it. And don't forget to put the video on youtube. Also, for arti to be as effective in com killing as two snipers, it should kill him in 4 shots, thats corresponds to time 6.66*4=27 seconds (6.66 is reload time). Are you sure that it is true? I beleive it takes more than 4 shots. Anyway the comparison is a little bit artificial. Just compare the stats of Luger and arti, there is everything.

Sniper makes 1000 damage to com per shot. So two shipers will make 4000 damage in two shots, which is higher than 3000 of unupgraded commander.

Also, I don't take the numbers from the ceeling, I just look at the stats on the web:

http://modinfo.adune.nl/index.php?act=e ... =xtapev955

http://modinfo.adune.nl/index.php?act=e ... =xtapev955

It is clear from the stats that unit that costs almoust two times more delivers even lower damage per second. So thats the main point.

[step]

Hi Babs. I don't play at all now. But I would like to return

that's not me...

also, compare core arty with pene, if you make it cost 1.5k, it's less than pene...

edit:

right, basically what you have to understand is it's inaccurate because of its wtf pwn ability. it can nearly 1 hit a comm, depending the the exp/morph level of comm and gravity of the map it can, many times.

now the cost, you reduce that and it eliminates the poor inaccuracy as you can have many for cheap...

you may say get rid of the damage/aoe for improved accuracy/cost efficiency but then you take away the entire point of the unit itself

It's meant to be a slow and bumbling inaccurate huge damage piece of artillery, take that away and it's useless, improve it and it's op

Sorry babs. As I already showed it is not so huge damage. Luger delivers more damage per second. So lets make it huge damage.
Regards.

[pintle]

You talk some serious bullshit Step. One word: IMPULSE.

In your searing rebuttal of my mockery of your retardation, you neglected to account for the one statement I actually made about the sniper: special (reduced) damage vs commanders.

I'm not going to run simulations to satisfy you, the onus is on YOU, the newbie arguing with the experienced players, to prove that your proposed changes would benefit the game, and improve balance.

I am entirely convinced that you do not have an adequate understanding of the game to be arguing so vehemently.

Let me spell it out: Core heavy plasma is a weapon class that Arm has no access to (disregarding Bertha). It's burst DPS potential is phenomal, beyond anything other than BLOD and starburst rockets. 1 (not 10) good hit on a commander can often decide the outcome of a game: if you don't impulse launch him, you will at least do enough damage that he will most likely begin running away.

Do any of the dps calculations here for luger vs arti account for aoe? Do they include damage from impulse?

[step]

You talk some serious bullshit Step. One word: IMPULSE.

In your searing rebuttal of my mockery of your retardation, you neglected to account for the one statement I actually made about the sniper: special (reduced) damage vs commanders.

I'm not going to run simulations to satisfy you, the onus is on YOU, the newbie arguing with the experienced players, to prove that your proposed changes would benefit the game, and improve balance.

I am entirely convinced that you do not have an adequate understanding of the game to be arguing so vehemently.

Let me spell it out: Core heavy plasma is a weapon class that Arm has no access to (disregarding Bertha). It's burst DPS potential is phenomal, beyond anything other than BLOD and starburst rockets. 1 (not 10) good hit on a commander can often decide the outcome of a game: if you don't impulse launch him, you will at least do enough damage that he will most likely begin running away.

Do any of the dps calculations here for luger vs arti account for aoe? Do they include damage from impulse?

First, I know about the reduced damage of sniper against commanders, that is why I wrote 1000 in the post not 2200 they made against ordinary units. I also wrote about two snipers that do 2000 to com per shot. So, don't be so ridiculous, I am writing how I understand this on the base of stats and my experience.
I am not a developer of the mod or the game.
You are trying to make a fool of me without even looking at the stats numbers, just behaving arrogantly!
And now lets imagine what these two snipers will do to ordinary fat unit, when they fire 2200 each, and compare that to 1000dmg of arti.

They do not account for aoe, since I don't have actually the information or formula how to calculate the damage. Information
given in the stats about AreaOfEffect = 144 is not sufficient.
Maybe somebody of the developers could give some hints on the calculation formula? I could guess that the 900 damage is distributed over the 12*12 square? Correct?

[step]

And they also dont include the impulse of course. But impulse will not damage the buildings.

[pintle]

And without accounting for AOE and impulse, statistical analysis of that weapon is completely meaningless.

I am being quite ridiculous, because this discussion is ridiculous to me: core arti is self evidently not underpowered.