Health Care

[PicassoCT]

Yes, pinochet, a asshole, but you have to admit he laid the way to chiles economical sucess-story. Its a tough thing to admit, but im not that blueeyed to bend&warp reality so its suits my favour of democratic goverment.

[tombom]

Yes, pinochet, a asshole, but you have to admit he laid the way to chiles economical sucess-story.

In 1973, the Chilean economy was deeply hurt by several reasons, including the economic sanctions imposed by the Nixon administration,[38] inflation was hundreds of percents, the country had no foreign reserves, and GDP was falling.[39] By mid 1975, the government set forth an economic policy of free-market reforms which attempted to stop inflation and collapse. He declared that he wanted "to make Chile not a nation of proletarians, but a nation of proprietors."[40] To formulate the economic rescue, the government relied on the so-called Chicago Boys.

The economic policies espoused by the Chicago Boys and implemented by the junta initially caused several economic indicators to decline for Chile's lower classes.[41] Between 1973 and 1989 , there were large cuts to incomes and social services. Wages decreased by 8%.[42] Family allowances in 1989 were 28% of what they had been in 1970 and the budgets for education, health and housing had dropped by over 20% on average[42] The junta relied on the middle class, the oligarchy, huge foreign corporations, and foreign loans to maintain itself.[43] The oligarchy recovered most of its lost industrial and agricultural holdings, for the junta sold to private buyers most of the industries expropriated by Allende's Popular Unity government. This period saw the expansion of monopolies and widespread speculation.

Financial conglomerates became major beneficiaries of the liberalized economy and the flood of foreign bank loans. Large foreign banks reinstated the credit cycle, as the Junta saw that the basic state obligations, such as resuming payment of principal and interest installments, were honored. International lending organizations such as the World Bank, the IMF, and the Inter-American Development Bank lent vast sums anew.[42] Many foreign multinational corporations such as International Telephone and Telegraph (ITT), Dow Chemical, and Firestone, all expropriated by Allende, returned to Chile.[42] Pinochet's policies eventually led to substantial GDP growth, in contrast to the negative growth seen in the early years of his administration. Foreign debt also grew substantially under Pinochet, rising 300% between 1974 and 1988.

His government implemented an economic model that had three main objectives: economic liberalization, privatization of state owned companies, and stabilization of inflation. In 1985, the government started with a second round of privatization, it revised previously introduced tariff increases and gave a greater supervisory role for the Central Bank. Pinochet's market liberalizations have continued after his death, led by Patricio Aylwin.[13]

even if you suggest that he did lead an economic recovery:
1) there's nothing to suggest allende couldn't have done the same under different policies.
2) conditions didn't actually improve for many, many people
3) HE WAS A FUCKING EVIL MURDEROUS DICTATOR. Maybe I'm crazy, but very, very little can outweight this in my mind. For anybody.

[PicassoCT]

show me the democratic country without evil kings in its history, and yet - havin read some papers on basic economic sucess beeing nesessary for democracy to work (people beeing someway independent and not so easy bribed for a cup of soup) he could have done worse. there are moar than enough dictators in the world, most of the murderous- and only a view countrys moved on, while many others - who wont get your attention, because they didnt drove a lefthandedhero into suicide, stagnated or worser even, fall back into tribal circumstances. So he didnt fuseboxed his countrys sucess, which is quite remarkable for a evil dictator.
Still your words sum it up pretty nice about his character.

I dont know, just opening up your heart, throwing some multilated dead bodys on the Sobek-scales and escaping comparissons, judgments, discussions, grey zones and the bitter lessons of (real- nonidealized human) behaviour throughout history all that stuff - man i wish i had this easy life.

On the other hand, maybee i have a easy life, just not taking seriously the suffering and the hard work of the people overcoming the human sized handicap a single person goverment always is. And there is no telling, how one of the killed persons in his prisons might have changed the world we know today. So it aint easy finding a total to truth..

The real riddle is, why the junta returned those statecompanys to the private hand. Just think about the internal resistance you would met- having corrupt compadres who see there benefits drifting away.

ÔÇ×So in desperation turned to them (the Chicago Boys) ... I have nothing good to say about the political regime that Pinochet imposed. It was a terrible political regime. The real miracle of Chile is not how well it has done economically; the real miracle of Chile is that a military junta was willing to go against its principles and support a freemarket regime designed by principled believers in a free market.[9]ÔÇ£

ÔÇô Milton Friedman ├╝ber den von ihm gepr├ñgten Begriff des ÔÇ×Wunders von ChileÔÇ£




Pinochett however had cared for his health on some swiss bank accounts

Pleaze post moar flaming rage, i need it to warm my room. So by beeing angry, you are beeing social.

[JohannesH]

Also, to chime in on the foreign leaders coming to US for healthcare...

US is far from the only country where rich foreigner go for health care.

But David Beckham comes to Finland. So clearly our system is bestest

[Forboding Angel]

You guys are aware that none of the NHC plans proposed in the US are even remotely similar to the ones in place where you are at right?

[Pxtl]

You guys are aware that none of the NHC plans proposed in the US are even remotely similar to the ones in place where you are at right?

Well, I am. The plan is basically: "You have to allow people with pre-existing conditions onto the plan. Citizens have to join a plan. And Insurance companies get six bazillion concessions we needed from various unscrupulous Blue Dog democrats needed for their lobbyists because Republicans wouldn't come to the table."

[Caydr]

A year and a half of a stated policy of obstruction of any legislation at all costs. A year and a half of blatant lies, fanning the flames of ignorant hatred, and wasting priceless time during a nasty recession. All this for the short-sighted, self-serving goal of making sure that nothing significant was accomplished so they could ask "How's that hopey-changey stuff workin' out for ya?" in an adorable Alaskan librarian voice.

...And wouldn't you know it, now the Republicans are whining that they "weren't included in the process" of health care reform.

When Lieberman, for whatever reason, decided to change his vote and effectively kill the public option, do you suppose democrats tried convincing some of the more moderate republicans to fill his shoes? Or how about when they lost another vote when so-and-so lost her seat to the centerfold guy, do you suppose that they tried again to convince some republican senators to sign on? You can bet they would've been willing to meet them half-way or at the very least make a couple of concessions. In fact, during the months and months when they were busy just trying to get all necessary democrat votes together, they probably would have equally valued as many republican votes as possible. They surely would've loved to be able to say "we have bipartisan support!" more than just "everyone on our team says yes, everyone on their team says no".

For a year and a half, Team Obama just let the debate go on, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And then finally he says, "Ok, I'm taking a lot of heat for being a doorstop, shit just got real - finish the damn thing RIGHT NOW!"

But no, a year and a half of screwing up the process didn't count to Team Douchebag as being "included" in the process.

The bill isn't all it could've been, and if a boilerplate public option had been included, it would have served to keep insurance companies' rates, fees, and features within reason. The requirement to get insurance, without a public option to ensure that the insurance is effective and reasonable, seems open for exploitation. Hopefully it can be added at a later date.

But there is precisely one reason the public option got killed, and that is the republicans' childish refusal to cooperate. Whatever it is that the party bigwigs are using to keep them in line - be it a threat of withdrawing financial support, blackmail, "bonuses" for good behavior, I don't know - the time's gotta come when one of them stops spewing party rhetoric and following orders... and just actually does what they think is the right thing.

You know... now that I think about it, the republican party is basically just a huge club for hairy old tsunderes, isn't it?