Quick comparison with Forged Alliance UI - Page 4

Quick comparison with Forged Alliance UI

Requests for features in the spring code.

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Gabba
Posts: 319
Joined: 08 Sep 2004, 22:59

Re: Quick comparison with Forged Alliance UI

Post by Gabba »

Thanks Saktoth for your input.
Saktoth wrote:Go complain to TheFatController on the BA forum for these improvements[...]
Noted.
Camera Controls
These commands are essential. I dont know how often people use the alt-zoom or control for slow down, but control for rotation and shift for speed are important (though the default could just be faster, since it scales by zoom level anyway). Still, manipulating the camera while you give orders is no great inconvenience. But you really have to offer a new proposal.
While playing Forged Alliance, I never felt the need for keys to speed up or slow down the camera. Maybe because it's so well calibrated?
Maybe the Spring FPS camera or some other needs those keys. However according to a poll I saw on the forums, an overwhelming majority of the users use the overhead one. Those camera-affecting functions could be moved to less essential keys than shift and ctrl.
The Spring cameras become annoying when I'm queuing buildings in my base, and try to scroll slightly to one side; since the shift key is pressed to queue orders it causes a jarring move instead of the slight scroll I'd expect.

My proposals:
- for the cameras, add one that copies exactly the Forge Alliance one
- for the keybindings, a "Forged Alliance" keyset would be nice, I suppose that if it becomes widely popular it could replace the default

The problem is that those two go together: without a good camera, you need accessible keys to move the view faster, and so on.

I'm not saying that someone should do it for me. Rather, someone should do it for the community if he/she likes the idea. I may even get around it, but I have too many projects and little time...
Cancelling orders
[...] and order moving/cancelling is really important (perhaps you can just improve the current widget).
If I get time to code for Spring (Argh talked about the typemap modification issue that also interests me), I could do it. But then I'll code it in C++ and replace the widget by a simple function call. I just think it's stupid to relegate such basic functionalities to external code.
Selection screening
You mean bandbox selection? Very annoying. Imperial Winter locks out selecting units and buildings at the same time and its infuriating for keeping rally points up to date. Its important to be able to bandbox constructors, as you are often managing a large amount of them, and mobiles are often mixed inbetween. Turrets dont move, who cares if you select them. Double click and control z help a lot with selecting a unit type. The only problem i have is control-z all cons, but i found myself missing the functionality when i screened them. Thats a keybind anyway.
Yup, bandbox selection. Well for this one people have convinced me it should be done by the various games, since it doesn't seem very complicated to code, and unit roles vary a lot from game to game.

But to discuss it shortly: I find excluding cons, buildings and transports works great when you're under pressure from a surprise attack, and you need to send all available troops. It allows you to do it even from orbital (max zoom out) view with a click-drag-click, without fear of sending cons or your comm to their death or interrupting vital constructions.
Combined with a widget (which we already have) to be informed of idle cons/comm and select them, I think it works much better than Spring's default.
My ideal combination in this area would be the exclusions I just described for the default selection, and a modifier key (meta if it isn't already overused) to select every unit type in the bandbox.
I'll probably test some combinations on my own, and go bother game developers such as yourself if I come up with something that works.


Edit: typo
Gedanken
Posts: 121
Joined: 13 Oct 2008, 02:57

Re: Quick comparison with Forged Alliance UI

Post by Gedanken »

Gabba wrote:About the canceling of orders, you seem to be the only one that likes Spring's current system.
It could be better, I agree with that - particularly order moving. In fact, I agree with most of your suggestions - a combination of the best of Spring commands and SupCom commands would be ideal. Have you seen z-selector btw? That's another great widget.

I had to modify my own selectkeys to take comm and cons out of selection after too many QQs with dead cons/comms
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Gabba
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Re: Quick comparison with Forged Alliance UI

Post by Gabba »

Gedanken wrote:Have you seen z-selector btw? That's another great widget.
I've installed that one too, but I can't say I have integrated it in my gameplay yet. It still requires you to zoom in and click on a unit of the right type, and I have a hard time with that when under pressure.
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smoth
Posts: 22309
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Re: Quick comparison with Forged Alliance UI

Post by smoth »

I want you to do a barrel roll and while you do it tell me in clear English why is it that you some how think it is ok to dismiss all the work that ain't ta
Gedanken
Posts: 121
Joined: 13 Oct 2008, 02:57

Re: Quick comparison with Forged Alliance UI

Post by Gedanken »

wow smoth is raging and making ad hominem remarks fancy that
Gedanken
Posts: 121
Joined: 13 Oct 2008, 02:57

Re: Quick comparison with Forged Alliance UI

Post by Gedanken »

Gabba wrote:
Gedanken wrote:Have you seen z-selector btw? That's another great widget.
I've installed that one too, but I can't say I have integrated it in my gameplay yet. It still requires you to zoom in and click on a unit of the right type, and I have a hard time with that when under pressure.
Also look at Regret's camera widget - it is far, far superior to the supcom one
luckywaldo7
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Joined: 17 Sep 2008, 04:36

Re: Quick comparison with Forged Alliance UI

Post by luckywaldo7 »

Gabba wrote:
luckywaldo7 wrote:I don't understand your fixation on doing stuff in the engine as opposed to widgets.
Meditate deeply on it, and maybe you'll understand. Or better, do some programming.
Don't patronize me.

The advantage of widgets is that it is incredibly easy to customize them based on the individual needs of the game or person. For example, I also use Regret's awesome camera widget, but I wasn't 100% happy with the default configuration, so I tweaked some of the options until I was, no compiling required. Widgets bring a tremendous amount of flexibility that you can't get as easily with engine-hardcoded stuff.

Sure, compiled code is magnitudes of order faster, but in general well-written widgets have a negligible impact on performance, so it it really worth the tiny performance boost?
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smoth
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Re: Quick comparison with Forged Alliance UI

Post by smoth »

Gedanken wrote:wow smoth is raging and making ad hominem remarks fancy that
Ad hominem works by attacking someone's personal beliefs in an attack on their argument. Not flaming them for posting something you do not like.

Here is an ad hominem for you. Don't try and insult me just because you lack the nutts to say what needs to be said. After all if I were a weak little person like you I would also attack people for only their negative posts. It is easy to attack me, I have 1000s of posts you just have to wait for me to post 1 negative thing. I guess that is all because you lack the testicular fortitude. It is ok, some of us are men, you are not.



*to random moderator* why "ain't" what did I have there before?
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Gabba
Posts: 319
Joined: 08 Sep 2004, 22:59

Re: Quick comparison with Forged Alliance UI

Post by Gabba »

@Smoth:
I'm not dismissing your work on Gundam or anything "not TA". If that came across, it's because of the limits of communications on internet forums. Can't fully explain my opinion in a few posts, especially not when some people are willing to focus on any detail and blow it out of proportions.
Apart from that if you want to discuss your manliness, please do that elsewhere. Go post pictures of your "testicular fortitude" on 4chan or something like that.

@luckywaldo
luckywaldo7 wrote:
Gabba wrote:
luckywaldo7 wrote:I don't understand your fixation on doing stuff in the engine as opposed to widgets.
Meditate deeply on it, and maybe you'll understand. Or better, do some programming.
Don't patronize me.

The advantage of widgets is that it is incredibly easy to customize them based on the individual needs of the game or person. For example, I also use Regret's awesome camera widget, but I wasn't 100% happy with the default configuration, so I tweaked some of the options until I was, no compiling required. Widgets bring a tremendous amount of flexibility that you can't get as easily with engine-hardcoded stuff.

Sure, compiled code is magnitudes of order faster, but in general well-written widgets have a negligible impact on performance, so it it really worth the tiny performance boost?
Your previous post didn't bring anything interesting to the discussion, and my answer was equally stupid.

Now, I'm not denying the flexibility of widgets, but Spring is getting slower every year (according to testimonies of people who could play it last year on their aging rig and now can't), and it can't get better as games rely on more and more widgets for basic functionality.

Maybe I came across too strongly, but I am annoyed when people assume that if it can be done in lua, then it should. I think decisions should be taken about this on a case-by-case basis, and when a lua feature becomes overwhelmingly popular, moving it to the engine should be considered for performance and standardization reasons.
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smoth
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Re: Quick comparison with Forged Alliance UI

Post by smoth »

Gabba wrote:@Smoth:
I'm not dismissing your work on Gundam or anything "not TA". If that came across, it's because of the limits of communications on internet forums. Can't fully explain my opinion in a few posts, especially not when some people are willing to focus on any detail and blow it out of proportions.
I didn't say only gundam. I meant all of the projects. You want BA to have a better UI you need to talk to the BA guys.
Gabba wrote:Apart from that if you want to discuss your manliness, please do that elsewhere. Go post pictures of your "testicular fortitude" on 4chan or something like that.
learn to forum, that post was directed at Gedanken who incorrectly said I was using ad hominem.
Gedanken
Posts: 121
Joined: 13 Oct 2008, 02:57

Re: Quick comparison with Forged Alliance UI

Post by Gedanken »

'I have spent the best years of my life giving people the lighter pleasures, helping them have a good time, and all I get is abuse, the existence of a hunted man.'
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