FPS Tourniment Map Idea...
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GrOuNd_ZeRo
- Posts: 1370
- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 01:10
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CaptainMaim
- Posts: 265
- Joined: 04 Sep 2005, 01:25
Ah yes, I noticed that little glitch while walking to maze.. However I didn't think that it was the only way to that base, or corner. Well.. Let me/us/whatever know when that's fixed.
The map doesn't really seem like it needs trees. (I seem to recall you mentioning something about trees, and other debris.) I think the little maze map looks great!
Hope to see some more like it soon maybe? Perhaps with some of those exploding barrels or whatever. ( Those sound like fun, esspecialy if they leave some sort of small resurrectable corpse for resetting purposes.)
However, for the time being I guess I can just use uncloaked land mines. Heh... Yeah.. I guess that ought to do for now.
The map doesn't really seem like it needs trees. (I seem to recall you mentioning something about trees, and other debris.) I think the little maze map looks great!
Hope to see some more like it soon maybe? Perhaps with some of those exploding barrels or whatever. ( Those sound like fun, esspecialy if they leave some sort of small resurrectable corpse for resetting purposes.)
However, for the time being I guess I can just use uncloaked land mines. Heh... Yeah.. I guess that ought to do for now.
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t9999clint
- Posts: 21
- Joined: 16 Jun 2005, 22:35
Well for the strafing idea, well instead of trying to turn the turret and the body at the same time in different directions in order to keep an eye on the enemy (which is annoying at best), why not (for non strafing vehicles only), when you hold down the right/left strafe button, you just change the direction of the sprite 90 degrees left/right but keep the turret in the same position and walk forward, and when the strafe key is released move the sprite back 90 degrees right/left and stop moving forward, while still keeping the turret in the same position. This should emulate strafing without having to do any major coding. Ok and when you press the up button when strafing it will adjust the direction of the sprite 45 degrees left/right and vise versa when pressing down.
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CaptainMaim
- Posts: 265
- Joined: 04 Sep 2005, 01:25
By sprite you mean the legs or chasis right? Cause from what I've noticed Spring doesn't seem to have any sprites (sprites being 2D pictures/animations as opposed to 3D models with textures.)
Anyway, for existing k-bots and tanks, they really shouldn't have strafing like it is in most FPS games were you've got a human player.
If I understand you right, the visual effect of watching a k-bot's legs jump 90 degrees in one frame is not much better than just watching them slide left or right while their legs walk forwards. (Old games had this same problem, Doom, Duke Nukem, I think Quake 1 and maybe Quake 2, etc... In these games the player models only had a forward walking animation, so when strafing was done it made the players slide while walking forwards or backwards IIRC... I know for a fact that old Sprite games like Doom had that problem.)
I understand what you mean though.. But it's not that annoying once you get used to it. Just don't think of the units like people, think of them like big metal machines that like stomping around. It's really more approreate to treat them like Mechs, rather than people anyway. Cause it's what they are.
I also hope with the strafing you don't include tanks, or other wheeled or tracked vehicles in that catagory, cause generally speaking, strafe is completely inapproreate for non-walking or non-flying units.
Also, Brawlers and Rapiers already have left right strafing, also reverse works on them too. Or at least it did... <Goes to try out current gunship controls and setup.> Yeah... Okay my argument's correct.. Hovercraft might work well for strafing, no reason why they shouldn't strafe too I suppose.
Therefore I'm thinking:
1) Tanks don't strafe but should be able to go into reverse.
2) K-Bots... Need reverse, but some k-bots should probably be capable of having a strafe tag. But I just thinking about the UI... If a K-bot has strafing, it's important that it doesn't have a turret. Reasons why, for those who haven't thought about it yet:
___A) Conventional FPS player controls bind aiming and rotation to the mouse in general. Meaning that the legs/chasis and the torso/turret are constantly facing the same direction.
___B) Keybindings: Left/Right with mouse controls chasis+turret orientation. Up/Down with mouse moves turret only. Left/right keyboard steps left and right (chasis only). Up/Down keyboard moves chasis forwards and backwards.
___C) Simply adding strafing as is: Left/Right/up/down with mouse moves turret. Left/right with keyboard moves unit along one axis. Up/Down keyboard moves unit along another axis. Up+Left moves at 45 degrees only to the other two fixed axises. Ergo, any movement between 45 and 90 degrees must be done by pulsing the vertical and horizontal controls. Else two MORE keys must be added just to rotate the chasis.
____D) In summary: K-Bots can have strafing but they must trade strafing for a fixed turret. Possible advantages are making a "Gunship K-Bot" Which would normally in groups attack an enemy in the same way a gunship would. By dancing back and forth in an arc or circle (could be spesified maybe.) But point is that's all you really need to do, make it so you can trade a turret for strafing. That way you get 2 kinds of K-Bots like we already have 2 kinds of planes. And that way everyone gets what he wants.
3) Hovercraft don't seem like it would be all that wrong for them to strafe either. No wheels or treads to hinder such a movement. However strafing hover tanks would also need to trade an independantly rotating turret for strafing abilities.
One final thought:
I can see only one reason why you'd want to mix free moving turrets with strafing and present keybindings. If you had a unit (k-bot/hovercraft) which had a very slow chasis turn rate and the turret's rotation rate was a compensation for that. But then again, why would you want something like that strafing anyways? Anyway if that were what you wanted, then I'd just suggest the a bindable key that locks the turret in place and temporarily toggeles between the keysetups I've stated (being, classic FPS and mechwarrior FPS keysetups.)
And that's my most well thought out, objective and unbiased evaluation on the subject of ground unit strafing. Sorry about the my verbose writing style... I tend to think about things a lot.
Anyway, for existing k-bots and tanks, they really shouldn't have strafing like it is in most FPS games were you've got a human player.
If I understand you right, the visual effect of watching a k-bot's legs jump 90 degrees in one frame is not much better than just watching them slide left or right while their legs walk forwards. (Old games had this same problem, Doom, Duke Nukem, I think Quake 1 and maybe Quake 2, etc... In these games the player models only had a forward walking animation, so when strafing was done it made the players slide while walking forwards or backwards IIRC... I know for a fact that old Sprite games like Doom had that problem.)
I understand what you mean though.. But it's not that annoying once you get used to it. Just don't think of the units like people, think of them like big metal machines that like stomping around. It's really more approreate to treat them like Mechs, rather than people anyway. Cause it's what they are.
I also hope with the strafing you don't include tanks, or other wheeled or tracked vehicles in that catagory, cause generally speaking, strafe is completely inapproreate for non-walking or non-flying units.
Also, Brawlers and Rapiers already have left right strafing, also reverse works on them too. Or at least it did... <Goes to try out current gunship controls and setup.> Yeah... Okay my argument's correct.. Hovercraft might work well for strafing, no reason why they shouldn't strafe too I suppose.
Therefore I'm thinking:
1) Tanks don't strafe but should be able to go into reverse.
2) K-Bots... Need reverse, but some k-bots should probably be capable of having a strafe tag. But I just thinking about the UI... If a K-bot has strafing, it's important that it doesn't have a turret. Reasons why, for those who haven't thought about it yet:
___A) Conventional FPS player controls bind aiming and rotation to the mouse in general. Meaning that the legs/chasis and the torso/turret are constantly facing the same direction.
___B) Keybindings: Left/Right with mouse controls chasis+turret orientation. Up/Down with mouse moves turret only. Left/right keyboard steps left and right (chasis only). Up/Down keyboard moves chasis forwards and backwards.
___C) Simply adding strafing as is: Left/Right/up/down with mouse moves turret. Left/right with keyboard moves unit along one axis. Up/Down keyboard moves unit along another axis. Up+Left moves at 45 degrees only to the other two fixed axises. Ergo, any movement between 45 and 90 degrees must be done by pulsing the vertical and horizontal controls. Else two MORE keys must be added just to rotate the chasis.
____D) In summary: K-Bots can have strafing but they must trade strafing for a fixed turret. Possible advantages are making a "Gunship K-Bot" Which would normally in groups attack an enemy in the same way a gunship would. By dancing back and forth in an arc or circle (could be spesified maybe.) But point is that's all you really need to do, make it so you can trade a turret for strafing. That way you get 2 kinds of K-Bots like we already have 2 kinds of planes. And that way everyone gets what he wants.
3) Hovercraft don't seem like it would be all that wrong for them to strafe either. No wheels or treads to hinder such a movement. However strafing hover tanks would also need to trade an independantly rotating turret for strafing abilities.
One final thought:
I can see only one reason why you'd want to mix free moving turrets with strafing and present keybindings. If you had a unit (k-bot/hovercraft) which had a very slow chasis turn rate and the turret's rotation rate was a compensation for that. But then again, why would you want something like that strafing anyways? Anyway if that were what you wanted, then I'd just suggest the a bindable key that locks the turret in place and temporarily toggeles between the keysetups I've stated (being, classic FPS and mechwarrior FPS keysetups.)
And that's my most well thought out, objective and unbiased evaluation on the subject of ground unit strafing. Sorry about the my verbose writing style... I tend to think about things a lot.
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GrOuNd_ZeRo
- Posts: 1370
- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 01:10
Main, you have a tendancy to make your posts real long...I usually end up not reading it all...
Tanks can strafe very well, I.E. if you press left, the chassis will turn 90° and move to the left and visa versa.
in Quake 1 the characters used the move forward animation while strafing, same with doom, don't know about Quake 2 since I barely ever played multiplayer.
Tanks can strafe very well, I.E. if you press left, the chassis will turn 90° and move to the left and visa versa.
in Quake 1 the characters used the move forward animation while strafing, same with doom, don't know about Quake 2 since I barely ever played multiplayer.
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t9999clint
- Posts: 21
- Joined: 16 Jun 2005, 22:35
I used the wrong terminology, sorry, but what I meant was the unit's position as a whole, not just the 3d model assigned to it.CaptainMaim wrote:By sprite you mean the legs or chasis right? Cause from what I've noticed Spring doesn't seem to have any sprites (sprites being 2D pictures/animations as opposed to 3D models with textures.)
What I had in mind was not a FPS with a Human character when I suggested this. In fact I was suggesting the controls from another 3d tank/cyborg RTS with a optional 3rd person view. Warzone 2100 (my fav. RTS of all time), where the tanks INDEED strafed in the way in which I am describing, and it makes a MAJOR difference in gameplay. And I didn't mean for the unit to turn instantly, I meant automaticly (But it would be nice if they did turn a little faster than they do now).CaptainMaim wrote: Anyway, for existing k-bots and tanks, they really shouldn't have strafing like it is in most FPS games were you've got a human player.
If I understand you right, the visual effect of watching a k-bot's legs jump 90 degrees in one frame is not much better than just watching them slide left or right while their legs walk forwards.
Good, but what I'm suggesting is to add Strafe LIKE abilities to vehicles that can't to it literally. What I mean by this is to move in one direction while the upper torso or turret is in another by use of the same controls that vehicles that actually CAN strafe use, therefore making them easier to control.CaptainMaim wrote:I also hope with the strafing you don't include tanks, or other wheeled or tracked vehicles in that catagory, cause generally speaking, strafe is completely inapproreate for non-walking or non-flying units.
Also, Brawlers and Rapiers already have left right strafing, also reverse works on them too.
exactly, but with the units that cannot move left or right have them turn (chassis only) in the manner of which I have explained above.CaptainMaim wrote:___B) Keybindings: Left/Right with mouse controls chasis+turret orientation. Up/Down with mouse moves turret only. Left/right keyboard steps left and right (chasis only). Up/Down keyboard moves chasis forwards and backwards.
I'm sorry, I should of explained that better. You do not need to add more buttons, just have these as the controls when the strafe flag is turned off for that unit.
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
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- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
press 1 for firing weapon 1 only and 1+2+(shift or something) to fire wpn 1+2 
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GrOuNd_ZeRo
- Posts: 1370
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CaptainMaim
- Posts: 265
- Joined: 04 Sep 2005, 01:25
Ground Zero: Thanks, also it's "Maim" with an "M" as in to dismember, not "Main" with an "N" as in primary. (Also not a big deal I get called either on occation.)
15 weapons? Hmm.. I'm sure there's another 5 keys we can scrape up for that... Tilda, Plus and Minus and Backspace... Course if you just make them bindable from a text file than it's all good. Good point however.. Also weapon grouping's a good thing.. I'm thinking of a side bar with illuminated weapon buttons [just having the weapon names on them's probably enough.] When fired you could have either an "Reloading" thing or whatever as is, or just making it change red [reload] or yellow [aiming] until it's Ready [green]. Also, as is, but without the text readout. Also this way you can deselect weapons just pressing the numbers or whatever and so you'll always know which guns are online/in use. (As the offline ones are obviously not illuminated...)
t9999clint: Don't ground units do that with their turrets already? Drive forwards and shot backwards or sideways? That is, what your saying right? If so.. That is how it is right now, except it's not 3rd person when using the units.. That's all. (I might have missed your point since I've not played the games you suggested.)
15 weapons? Hmm.. I'm sure there's another 5 keys we can scrape up for that... Tilda, Plus and Minus and Backspace... Course if you just make them bindable from a text file than it's all good. Good point however.. Also weapon grouping's a good thing.. I'm thinking of a side bar with illuminated weapon buttons [just having the weapon names on them's probably enough.] When fired you could have either an "Reloading" thing or whatever as is, or just making it change red [reload] or yellow [aiming] until it's Ready [green]. Also, as is, but without the text readout. Also this way you can deselect weapons just pressing the numbers or whatever and so you'll always know which guns are online/in use. (As the offline ones are obviously not illuminated...)
t9999clint: Don't ground units do that with their turrets already? Drive forwards and shot backwards or sideways? That is, what your saying right? If so.. That is how it is right now, except it's not 3rd person when using the units.. That's all. (I might have missed your point since I've not played the games you suggested.)