Gameplay and Graphics. CALL TO ARMS!

[[Krogoth86]]

The worst part about this entire thread is that Krog and slek's arguments are just plain bad. You can not look at it from any one direction and say "Oh yeah, that makes sense" o wai-

Well if you had read my posts more careful you would have read that I agree with smoth - I just added something about the severity and some slightly OT talk...

[smoth]

just make a new post so we can continue from there.

[Pressure Line]

...but I worked and got better. The problem is not a lack of "resources" I mean really, do you have to refer to us like that.. the problem is lack of people making the effort to become a "resource." They can edit the wiki, make unit guides, make maps, anything... just get up and try.

^_^ dones!

btw, any further tutorial requests?

[Crayfish]

Yes, I want a one page tutorial on how to be awesome!

And um, what programs do you use to model? And are they free?

And can I combine my soon-to-be-acquired digital SLR with this possible hobby somehow?

And in more seriousness, how would you recommend one get started kicking about with some modelling, and are there any good established tutorials that you could endorse online?

[smoth]

use the forum search look for wings tutorials look for posts made by me. I have linked to them several times on the forum but do not have the links with me atm.

[[Krogoth86]]

And in more seriousness, how would you recommend one get started kicking about with some modelling, and are there any good established tutorials that you could endorse online?

If you don't want to pay for a software go with Wings3D or Blender. Wings is just a modeller while Blender is a real rendering & animation suite. Just try out both although Wings probably is easier to start with because it's more focused on modelling and Blender's interface is a class of its own...

For tutorials just look for them on the softwares' homepages and use Google to find some - it's quite easy to find some as there are tons of em. Asking for links to turorials in most cases won't give you good results because those some made for theirselves back then and which were very helpful nowadays probably are outdated and may confuse you because of changed menu points & stuff. So just go ahead and search them for yourself...

Once you think you have understood the basic tools which are used you also can try to read other software's tutorials in order to just get to know the techniques to do something which mostly are pretty similar in every piece of software - at least when it comes down to things like boxmodelling...

[jellyman]

Higher poly count and glossy screen shots when zoomed in close don't always make a better looking game. In my opinion CA graphics are a step backwards because the units look uglier when zoomed out to a practical distance for play.

I prefer the look of BA. Maybe its just because I'm older and used to the old style, and not used to the new style....

Old man rambling digression - anyone remember space invaders? When jazzing up the graphics meant putting coloured strips of plastic on the screen so the that the black and white invaders were different colours depending on how far down the screen they were?

[Otherside]

k we will make Spring 3d0 only and use 11 year old models..

[Peet]

3d0

Object does not begin with a zero

[Pressure Line]

Yes, I want a one page tutorial on how to be awesome!

And um, what programs do you use to model? And are they free?

And can I combine my soon-to-be-acquired digital SLR with this possible hobby somehow?

And in more seriousness, how would you recommend one get started kicking about with some modelling, and are there any good established tutorials that you could endorse online?

I use wings3d for modeling and GIMP for image editing. Both are free.

you most certainly can, you can use it to take photos of interesting stuff to serve as reference/inspiration material, as well as things to use for texturing.

Google is your friend on this one, there are a number of Wings tutorials availible for free.

[smoth]

Old man rambling digression - anyone remember space invaders? When jazzing up the graphics meant putting coloured strips of plastic on the screen so the that the black and white invaders were different colours depending on how far down the screen they were?

don't derail the thread and yes I am old enough to have played an Atari when Atari was all there was. Space invaders lacks the depth and complexity of modern games. It was only good because our standards were lower then. please don't derail the thread though. old games like that are apples and oranges from modern games. The only thing that makes them seem good is the magical haze of reminiscence. I am putting this at the top of my reply because this is a side discussion and derailment.

Higher poly count and glossy screen shots when zoomed in close don't always make a better looking game.

Upclose shots do not make a better game. However, better models do read cleaner in the spring engine which renders different then the ta engine. Those old outdated models look great in OTA:

(click for larger image)

However, in spring, those old models are rendered in a different engine, one which requires other considerations, considerations that did not need to be made in OTA because the engine renders the models differently.

Case in point old gundam shot:


However when s3oed the unit can read even easier for the eyes:

(click for larger image)

In my opinion CA graphics are a step backwards because the units look uglier when zoomed out to a practical distance for play.

You ignored most of my posts in this thread didn't you. The ta models work for TA not for spring due to the way they ARE RENDERED. In a better rendering engine like spring their flaws are more apparent.

What new ca models look uglier? give me some names.

I prefer the look of BA. Maybe its just because I'm older and used to the old style, and not used to the new style....

You have had over 10 years to get used to proper looking models.

[jellyman]

I still think the newer CA models look uglier than the older models. Example I noticed in my most recent game were the peewees and the riot tanks.

There is a thing called personal taste. I have no problem with people who think the new models look better. And I think I have every right to state that in my opinion the new ones look worse.

That way people who make stuff to be popular can consider my opinion with the appropriate weighting (as only one among many). Those who create content for reasons other than being popular can ignore my opinion. Although if they then complain I don't like their content, they only have themselves to blame.

[Otherside]

Mr D's Core Vehicle Remakes look worse than OTA units O_o

[smoth]

yeah, the new peewees are not peewees at all, I am still not sure why they were completely removed. What did they do to the riot tank?

[Argh]

Smoth, instead of arguing with these people further, why not just hold some contests, no critique / nit-picking bullshit allowed, and allow popular vote to determine the outcomes?

Based on my very sporadic contests, I'd say that it'd probably work out just fine. We have plenty of modelers around here, and more skinners than is readily apparent, they just refuse to work in an environment where they're treated like shit, and I can't blame them.

Just make a no-nitpicking rule, and ask the Moderators to enforce it. No posts, that don't have a model attached, plain and simple, and no comments about previous entries.

Show only renders using a standardized setup, which you can probably automate in your sleep, so that no bullshots are involved, when people review the models.

Winning models to be distributed under CC-SA or whatever, and skinned by whoever wants a go, or hold further contests, once all of the winning models have been selected.

All nit-picking would be reserved for when it's time to vote, in a separate thread, so that it's straight-up and fair, and does not turn into endless flamewars, nitpicking, etc., and does not waste artists' time or bruise them too badly to continue to participate further.

Popular vote wins, hold runoffs if appropriate. No "we're going to debate this for months", no, "I'm a leet artist here, I get a veto", etc., just straight-up popular vote.

When it's all said and done, you'd end up with a huge collection of models, some great, some probably not so hot, but meh, it'd be fast, and get this concept over the hump- waiting for Mr. D to finish just Core alone isn't an acceptable alternative, imo.

Basically, quit fighting with people who aren't going to do any work anyhow, and move this somewhere useful. Ignore this stupid thread, let it die, it was completely pointless, imo.



I'm sure somehow you'll interpret all of this as some nefarious plot, or whatever, but meh, I'm tired of watching this stupid flamefest, when everybody could just move forwards, and I had a positive idea to contribute involving action and solving the major problems with this project, which are mainly cultural in origin. Man up, and all that. If you don't bother doing anything with this, I may pilot this with World Builder objects when it's time to do so, as I think it's the way to go with tasks of this kind.

[smoth]

argh, contests are about who is better then someone else. I just like to see what other people make, shitty or not, I enjoy looking at it. A contest would have the purpose of saying one person is better then another.

[Argh]

No... it'd just let the public get their say. It's not about "better" in any real sense, and it'd give artists feedback. Not e-peen, that's why I say that no critique should be allowed until voting-time, so that's not even a factor.

And contests generate a lot more excitement, imo. But meh, do what you want, I promise I'll stay out of it, and this is my last post about this.

[smoth]

why have a vote? that declares an arguable winner. It would all fall down to tastes etc. that aside, that really isn't the point of this thread.

[Snipawolf]

This is about looking at an AK from a ninety degree angle or more. I'm serious, give it a try... It looks great

[Guessmyname]

Speaking of AKs...