wow.

[theHive]

If somebody can be sent to eternal torment for something done in a tiny amount of time, the God is not just, forgiving or merciful.

See, the way I have seen it taught (in Christianity) is not that God sends people to Hell, but rather that people choose to not be with God and therefore choose to go to Hell. In this context God is completely just, forgives those who desire forgiveness and merciful to those who desire mercy.

[rattle]

Actually the church sends people to hell, but only those who didn't pay for their indulgence.

[SwiftSpear]

The problem is there is many different versions of Christianity... There have been people in the church who quite literally believed that they had the authority to send people to hell, where as new age Christianity in contrast teaches that that presumption alone is pretty much one of the worst sins committable. God may not be changing, but the face his followers put on sure as hell does.

[theHive]

Actually the church sends people to hell, but only those who didn't pay for their indulgence.

Lets not equate medieval (or even modern) Catholicism with Christianity.
They are not the same thing.

[Forboding Angel]

Many of you are having trouble seperating catholicism from christianity... I find that fact very interesting, as well as indicitive of how people on that side of the pond think. I'm guessing that when you guys speak of being approached by christianity, the majority of you are talking about catholicism and don't realize it.

[tombom]

Many of you are having trouble seperating catholicism from christianity... I find that fact very interesting, as well as indicitive of how people on that side of the pond think. I'm guessing that when you guys speak of being approached by christianity, the majority of you are talking about catholicism and don't realize it.

1) Rattle was joking
2) You think the same way except opposite. You didn't even think catholicisim was a form of Christianity!

[Forboding Angel]

It isn't.

Catholicism != christianity.

However, many catholics would refer to themselves as Christians, so meh. The belief structure is VERY different.

Christianity may have a lot of different denominations (and many of the denominations are almost exactly alike e.g. Chruch of God (Holiness) and Nazarene. This is next to no difference.), but they are all Very similar to one another.

Catholicism is in a class all it's own. No denomination of Christianity (That I know of, or have ever heard about) Teaches praying to Mary. And that's only the beginning...

[theHive]

It isn't.

Catholicism != christianity.

I do think it's possible to find a Christian in a Catholic church though, it's just that they have become Christian in spite of the church, rather than because of it.

There is so much messed up with Catholic Doctrine it's hard to know where to start.

[Forboding Angel]

^^ Yar, that's what I was trying to say.

[Boirunner]

Forboding Angel, you are wrong in saying that Catholicism isn't a Christian faith.

Please look at this image depicting the history of Christianity.

Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant Christians each differ quite significantly in beliefs.

Please tell me what particular faith you consider to be true. Just differentiating between Catholics and the rest of Christianity makes little sense.

[Forboding Angel]

Which I believe to be true really isn't all that relevant, especially considering my own beliefs (which are largely uninteresting).

I was just trying to explain that catholicism is essentially a different belief structure than christianity.

Yes, Catholicism is related to christianity, but when nearly any american refers to christianity in a purely theological sense, they are rarely speaking of the catholic church, which has grown into it's own faith of sorts.

Actually boirunner, I would be a little surprised if you didn't understand the difference.

Hows this for a simple explaination:
YOu have all the denominations that can be lumped into 1 group, then you have catholicism, which is it's own group.

That make sense?

[Boirunner]

Just differentiating between Catholics and the rest of Christianity makes little sense.

YOu have all the denominations that can be lumped into 1 group, then you have catholicism, which is it's own group.

That make sense?

No, it still doesn't. According to this site, in the USA 52% of all citizens are Protestant, 24% are Catholic, the 6% are of a different Christian faith. there are half as many Catholics as Protestants, that's not really a negligible minority.

The Protestant church split off from the Catholics following the teachings of Luther in the 16th Century. The Orthodox church (which is hardly present in the USA) split off even earlier. Claiming on of these three isn't really Christianity is silly, just say it like it is: They aren't Protestant.

edit: I just realized that you simply use the term Christianity for Protestantism, and claim the other Christian faiths aren't Christian. Please debug your categorization

edit2: Or is this misuse of terms normal in the USA?

[tombom]

Forboding Angel, you are starting to appear ignorant. Catholics are definitely Christians and it's quite strange that you seem to be ignoring them. There are so many different denominations of Christianity that believe different things that it's also completely ridiculous to lump Catholics in one and all "Christians" in another. The various Orthodox churches and the Coptic ones are all Christian and are generally closer to Catholicism. It's also completely ridiculous to suggest that you can judge all Christian faiths by just one. I'm sure many Christians would be offended if they were told they were polygamous because a few sects are.

[CarRepairer]

edit: I just realized that you simply use the term Christianity for Protestantism, and claim the other Christian faiths aren't Christian. Please debug your categorization

edit2: Or is this misuse of terms normal in the USA?

I have more than once come across people from South America with whom I've discussed religion and there is a big misunderstanding. In South America, there is a small but increasing Protestant minority who reject the Catholic church which is so mainstream in that part of the world. They call themselves "cristianos" or something along those lines in spanish, not Protestants. No, in the USA we have a clear understanding of the Catholic and Protestant denominations as both being Christian. Perhaps Forboding Angel is from South America and he is new to our great country. Welcome aboard!

[Forboding Angel]

edit: I just realized that you simply use the term Christianity for Protestantism, and claim the other Christian faiths aren't Christian. Please debug your categorization

edit2: Or is this misuse of terms normal in the USA?

Edit 1 is correct, technically a fault of my own
except "and claim the other Christian faiths aren't Christian." << Not at all, I can't always find the terms I'm looking for. Protestants group 1, catholics group 2.

People on the other side of the pond tend to confuse the differences between group 1 and group 2 and lump them togethr as one group.

There does that make sense now?


@edit2: Probably. However, my own misuse is probably mroe common than the average american.




Ok let me recap everything I've been trying to say recently:

Protestant beliefs and Catholic beliefs Differ GREATLY in many ways. Please do not confuse the 2 by lumping them together in the same group (which is a common misconception of europeans I have noticed, even though I don't really know why).


TOmbom, you took what I was trying to say completely out of context. I am sorry that my misuse of terms caused confusion.

BTW what carrepairer said is correct, as I have said about 3 times in this post, occasionally I will misuse simple terms because the word won't come to the forfront of my mind, sowwy


Edit: Tombom, I must say that I am a little irritated by your refusal to attempt to conceptualize what I was attempting to say, even boirunner figured it out. I personally make the attempt to understand what people are saying even if the terms are misuesd (which IS rather common). I don't think that any of us are theological scholors here, so lets just try to derrive what we are attempting to say, before assumeing that they are idiots. I must say that I was slightly offended by your post, simply because it seemed to me that you didn't even try to figure out what I was trying to say, even though I was trying my best to explain it.

Many posts in this thread have been from people confusing Catholicism with Protestantism.

Misuse of terms is common in everyone. We are all prone to mistake terms at some point. Obviously in a discussion such as this, using correct terms for something is important, and throughout I have really been trying to make sure that I don't screw them up, however, obviously it happened. Another thing that causes me problems, is the fact that since I am at work I am forced to use IE7, which does not have the auto spellcheck that Firefox at home does, so sometimes I am trying to write a word that is uncommon to me and I misspell it (yes many times I do search google for the right word). I work nights, which means that generally speaking, I am at work at my nighttime when you guys are working in the daytime where you live. Working nights, you have your "Day" before you go to work instead of after, so right about 8am(my time -6gmt) my brain is really starting to slow down, and coming up with the right words is a bit of a struggle. Not to mention that I work at a Tax related job, which is rather mentally stressing (considering that our tax code is like 6 feet thick).

Anyway... so yeah. That stuff.

[tombom]

I realise what you mean Forboding Angel, and I don't mean to sound offensive, I just feel that things are a lot more complex than just Protestants v Catholics.

[Forboding Angel]

Oh most definately. Was was just by people confusing the 2 distinct structures and mixing them.

[SwiftSpear]

I consider all denominational forms of Christianity reasonably invalid. They are religions of books and buildings, that's entirely against the point of theological Christianity.

[Snipawolf]

lol religion

[Jonanin]

MODERN CATHOLIC CHRISTIANITY IS ABOUT CHILD MOLESTATION