On the subject of word meaning.
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On the subject of word meaning.
There has been much discussion, here and in other places, over weather we should refer to "games" made with the spring engine as "mods"... some time in the last day or so I realized that while it is inappropriate to refer to these things as "Game Modifications" it is very appropriate to refer to them as "Content Modules"... so instead of changing the wording we are all so comfortable with we just need to change the definition of the word. It might help a few people sleep better at night without pissing anyone else off.
An action plan for this was put up at smoths forums in mod discussion and posts made in threads here however few have yet to take notice and actually add the simple 2 tags in that very simple copy paste operation.
Because of this I have not written the unitsync patch for it and I have not integrated the new API that patch would expose into the lobbies.
I have shown you the path. I have shortened the path to an absurdly small length. Nobody has decided to take it (ETA 2 seconds at walking speed).
Because of this I have not written the unitsync patch for it and I have not integrated the new API that patch would expose into the lobbies.
I have shown you the path. I have shortened the path to an absurdly small length. Nobody has decided to take it (ETA 2 seconds at walking speed).
Did you mean to reply to a different thread? I'm a little confused what you're referring to.AF wrote:An action plan for this was put up at smoths forums in mod discussion and posts made in threads here however few have yet to take notice and actually add the simple 2 tags in that very simple copy paste operation.
Because of this I have not written the unitsync patch for it and I have not integrated the new API that patch would expose into the lobbies.
I have shown you the path. I have shortened the path to an absurdly small length. Nobody has decided to take it (ETA 2 seconds at walking speed).
http://cs.selu.edu/~ssmith/BB/viewtopic.php?t=1561
Its very simple.
Add these 2 tags if your game is based on TA, e.g. AA/XTA/BA/CA/EA/etc
A simple copy paste into modinfo.tdf
The value of name and game tags should be identical for an original official game and not a fork of any kind, e.g. Gundam, EE, Original TA, nanoblobz etc
Its very simple.
Add these 2 tags if your game is based on TA, e.g. AA/XTA/BA/CA/EA/etc
Code: Select all
game=Total Annihilation;
shortgame=TA;The value of name and game tags should be identical for an original official game and not a fork of any kind, e.g. Gundam, EE, Original TA, nanoblobz etc
Rattle, tombom, right now you cant change how people think of things in the current system unless you take active steps.
Yes our current accepted definition of a 'mod' is incorrect, out of sync with the rest of the game industry, and damaging to any non TA content. It complicate organisation and the process of advertising.
So in order to move towards a more appropriate definition actual changes need to occur. These tags help do that, if anything they're useful for organisational purposes.
What definitions should there be and the meaning has already been endlessly discussed and each time very very similar conclusions have been found but no actual plan to change things just people saying it should be like this ro like that but not doing anything about it.
This is not a new topic, and it has been discussed to death.
Yes our current accepted definition of a 'mod' is incorrect, out of sync with the rest of the game industry, and damaging to any non TA content. It complicate organisation and the process of advertising.
So in order to move towards a more appropriate definition actual changes need to occur. These tags help do that, if anything they're useful for organisational purposes.
What definitions should there be and the meaning has already been endlessly discussed and each time very very similar conclusions have been found but no actual plan to change things just people saying it should be like this ro like that but not doing anything about it.
This is not a new topic, and it has been discussed to death.
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Felix the Cat
- Posts: 2383
- Joined: 15 Jun 2005, 17:30
TBH I actually think that "mod" more accurately describes where Spring's content distribution and use system is at now.
If they were "games" it would imply that they are separate self-contained units, i.e. you'd be able to download Nanoblobs on its own and play it. "Mods" instead indicates that the content is downloaded as add-ons to an existing engine (Spring) and is run through that engine.
In other words, EE is to Spring as (say) The Specialists is to Half-Life. TS is a mod. Therefore, the concept of EE being something that one installs into Spring is best encapsulated in the word "mod".
Perhaps "games" is more correct in a technical lexicographical sense, but frankly, dear, I don't give a damn.
If they were "games" it would imply that they are separate self-contained units, i.e. you'd be able to download Nanoblobs on its own and play it. "Mods" instead indicates that the content is downloaded as add-ons to an existing engine (Spring) and is run through that engine.
In other words, EE is to Spring as (say) The Specialists is to Half-Life. TS is a mod. Therefore, the concept of EE being something that one installs into Spring is best encapsulated in the word "mod".
Perhaps "games" is more correct in a technical lexicographical sense, but frankly, dear, I don't give a damn.
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
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Felix the Cat
- Posts: 2383
- Joined: 15 Jun 2005, 17:30
How would you like it if you spent 100 years designing and building the worlds greatest monument and I called it a simple modification of a paper box I made a day before you started?
Nanoblobz is a game. It is a game because it is not a modified version of another game.
BA/CA/AA/EA/etc are mods. This is ebcause they're not original, they are modifications, forks of the original game, aka Total Annihilation.
The reason 'mod' seems to be the most appropriate at the moment is because the most popular content atm just happen to be mods of TA.
TA (OTA) is a game. All other TA based content is a mod.
Calling a game made from scratch a mod is disrespectful of the effort put into creating and envisaging the game.
For the moment its very simple. If your mod has TA units in it copy paste the two tags into your modinfo.tdf. Thats all there is to it.
Nanoblobz is a game. It is a game because it is not a modified version of another game.
BA/CA/AA/EA/etc are mods. This is ebcause they're not original, they are modifications, forks of the original game, aka Total Annihilation.
The reason 'mod' seems to be the most appropriate at the moment is because the most popular content atm just happen to be mods of TA.
TA (OTA) is a game. All other TA based content is a mod.
Calling a game made from scratch a mod is disrespectful of the effort put into creating and envisaging the game.
For the moment its very simple. If your mod has TA units in it copy paste the two tags into your modinfo.tdf. Thats all there is to it.
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Felix the Cat
- Posts: 2383
- Joined: 15 Jun 2005, 17:30
BUT... I've played tons of awesome pwnsauce mods, and tons of laem mind-breaking games.smoth wrote:because one is a TOTAL CONVERSION and the other is an independant game.Felix the Cat wrote:How is it insulting?Caydr wrote:Calling things like Dystopia or The Hidden "mods" is insulting, and I'm not even the developer. Call AA whatever you like but show respect for those guys...
Also, both of you read my first post in this thread, I've already conceded that the technically correct word is "game". My argument is not based on a dictionary definition of "game" or "mod", but rather on which word best represents how the content is used in the context of Spring, which is more like a mod than a game.
I guess it's a matter of whether you are OMG RESPEK MY WORK IT SI GAEM or are more concerned with making Spring more familiar and inviting to new players.
See... That's what I was trying to say, we call them Modules... people who are familiar with Quake and GalCiv 2 and freespace and Total Annihilation will know what we mean in general because they recognize them as "Mods" or "TC"... but we don't have to feel bad for using the wrong term.Felix the Cat wrote:BUT... I've played tons of awesome pwnsauce mods, and tons of laem mind-breaking games.smoth wrote:because one is a TOTAL CONVERSION and the other is an independant game.Felix the Cat wrote: How is it insulting?
Also, both of you read my first post in this thread, I've already conceded that the technically correct word is "game". My argument is not based on a dictionary definition of "game" or "mod", but rather on which word best represents how the content is used in the context of Spring, which is more like a mod than a game.
I guess it's a matter of whether you are OMG RESPEK MY WORK IT SI GAEM or are more concerned with making Spring more familiar and inviting to new players.
We could have "Full Game Modules" like Gundam and "TA Based Game Modules" like Absolute Annihilation and "Expansion Modules" like the spiders factory and "Mutator Modules for X".
I think they are mods because the engine stays the same.
Counterstrike, Day of Defeat, Natural Selection etc. are called mods too. (for Halflife)
I dont see how calling these "mods" is insulting to the developers, seeing how like the spring engine, Halflife was designed to be mod-able.
On the other side, Call of Duty is no mod for Quake III because the engine got changed and bla...
A total conversion is, in my opinion, when you modify a game that was not intentend to be changed, like ie Starcraft.
Counterstrike, Day of Defeat, Natural Selection etc. are called mods too. (for Halflife)
I dont see how calling these "mods" is insulting to the developers, seeing how like the spring engine, Halflife was designed to be mod-able.
On the other side, Call of Duty is no mod for Quake III because the engine got changed and bla...
A total conversion is, in my opinion, when you modify a game that was not intentend to be changed, like ie Starcraft.
Well felix, I am not really argueing because I understand you guys are going to call them what you want and argueing it will not get us anywhere.
I understand your points that most people out there call all of them games. I also understand that every time I jump on a server now a days I will play for 20 or so minutes and the moment some get raepd by me they start screaming HAX. The large percentage of players out there are morons, how else can you explain a game like wow being soo popular? Nevermind that we would derail the thread(in before wow fanbois)
I argued in the past on the point of game vs mod vs tc because I do feel the distinction can be made. The rational for such a thing was that I wanted to illustrate through titles that spring has more to it then the TA^X game packages. In my observations in lobby players ask, what is the main game, to which many people reply TA(Specifically ba/aa). However, that is not the case and it mis-represents the capabilities of this engine. As I have said many times before, it is more attractive to download something that gives you many games then to download something with only mods.
Now I understand many of you feel fine in using the particular vernacular "mod" to represent module. However, players do not see it as thus and will read it to mean modification which begs the question what is the spring game that is being modded. To me, this is why we have soo many *TA mods, people think the only thing they can play with is ta. However, this is all moot as I am sure to change no minds and I know that it would be too much of an imposition to ask people to reframe their thinking.
I understand your points that most people out there call all of them games. I also understand that every time I jump on a server now a days I will play for 20 or so minutes and the moment some get raepd by me they start screaming HAX. The large percentage of players out there are morons, how else can you explain a game like wow being soo popular? Nevermind that we would derail the thread(in before wow fanbois)
I argued in the past on the point of game vs mod vs tc because I do feel the distinction can be made. The rational for such a thing was that I wanted to illustrate through titles that spring has more to it then the TA^X game packages. In my observations in lobby players ask, what is the main game, to which many people reply TA(Specifically ba/aa). However, that is not the case and it mis-represents the capabilities of this engine. As I have said many times before, it is more attractive to download something that gives you many games then to download something with only mods.
Now I understand many of you feel fine in using the particular vernacular "mod" to represent module. However, players do not see it as thus and will read it to mean modification which begs the question what is the spring game that is being modded. To me, this is why we have soo many *TA mods, people think the only thing they can play with is ta. However, this is all moot as I am sure to change no minds and I know that it would be too much of an imposition to ask people to reframe their thinking.