We dont actual have TA...

pintle · Post by **pintle** » 20 Sep 2007, 17:36

Back on topic, ota balance sucked compared to the many options available to us now

Mr.Frumious · Post by **Mr.Frumious** » 20 Sep 2007, 17:43

pintle wrote:Back on topic, ota balance sucked compared to the many options available to us now

Balance, yes, but gameplay? Few mods play like OTA. L2 is necessary for a viable economy, most have Uberhack-style anti-air, and so on, many more L2 units are simply "bigger/better" versions of L1 ones (which was only true for a handful of OTA units), etc. Many of those features were quite different in OTA.

Sleksa · Post by **Sleksa** » 20 Sep 2007, 18:48

pintle wrote:Back on topic, ota balance sucked compared to the many options available to us now

That is the very thing that made it unique.

The gameplay was awesome as it was, but with those added exploits it became even more awesome!

zwzsg · Post by **zwzsg** » 20 Sep 2007, 21:29

Tired wrote:And who do you think's going to recreate Spring from the ground up to accomodate OTA completely, zwzsg? You? ~~

I'm not talking about recreating Spring from the ground up. Other Frenches are already on it.

Personally, I've found that Spring's gameplay is superior to OTA's as it adds functionality.

Some functionnality, like the better GUI, I'll keep, it's the units I want to be the same. It could be argued that some units and strategy effectiveness could depends on GUI functionnality, like for instance stuff that would requires too much micro to be useable in TA but can be done in two clicks in Spring, but I'll just ignore that point.

If we're to recreate OTA exactly, then we'd better do away with this crazy deformable terrain.

Deformable terrain is easy to remove, just one or two tags to each weapon. Still not sure I want to remove it though.

3D's got to go as well.

I found out when I actually want to play efficiently, I use TA view, so.

"find a way to fiddle with the weapons tag to force Spring to behave closer to TAis made of fail. "Closer to" won't have the same gameplay either.

Well, first it will have closer gameplay. And now that we have the tags to shoot through allies and stuff, it could even be exactly the same gameplay.

Anyway, why don't you pretend to be a player more often. I'll offer you a tutorial in getting your butt stomped

Generally, top player are stupid moron who can't do further modding than stats edit, and competent modders are stupid morons who cannot play better than average. Basic fact about all videogames. There's only 24hr per day, you can't excel at both modding and playing. Unless you're a deity like SY (ok, he does programming of game engine, not exactly modding, and that was after his years as top player, but still)

and you can learn some things about the importance of cost effectiveness. =)

You completly miss my point. I don't say cost effectiveness is unimportant, I say the role of a unit in the gameplay can't be reduced to a single value.

*For the record, my mod, with barely 300 downloads, gets me credit for being at least a pretend modder

I consider you a FBI/TDF tweaker, not a tr├â┬╝e modder.

As for the whole czar saucer drama, I'm sorry, I honestly believed helping Tired and TheRegisteredOne get in contact would be beneficial, that they could get along and that TheRegisteredOne would help Tired get his saucer working in Spring. For instance, on TAUniverse, countless times TRO, Wotan, Boogie, Zodius, etc... are helping each other getting some tricky units or new concept working, sharing models and scripts, even though they are basically each working on their own competing mods.

But between TRO and Tired it went all awry, and instead of synergy I created drama.

I was convinced that good communication before public release was the way to go to prevent issues, but apparently it wasn't the case. In any way, keeping it a secret to TRO that Tired was reusing TRO's unit wouldn't necessarly have worked, since TheRegisteredOne checks Spring quite regularly he could have found by himself.

And I feel this topic has got hijacked by off-topic drama.

TheRegisteredOne · Post by **TheRegisteredOne** » 20 Sep 2007, 21:39

zwzsg wrote:I was convinced that good communication before public release was the way to go to prevent issues, but apparently it wasn't the case. In any way, keeping it a secret to TRO that Tired was reusing TRO's unit wouldn't necessarly have worked, since TheRegisteredOne checks Spring quite regularly he could have found by himself.

Teaching, helping, and discussion is not the same as "sharing". I am quite adamant about side specific units. Wotan has asked to use Talon units, and I refused.

REVENGE · Post by **REVENGE** » 21 Sep 2007, 01:45

Ishach wrote:5mug

XD

JoseJoas · Post by **JoseJoas** » 22 Sep 2007, 17:43

<3 me!^^

zwzsg, a modder is anyone who makes a mod - period. Anyone who opens up a .sdz, changes the mod info. to have a new game name, and saves it, has successfully become a "modder." Any ridiculous artificial qualifications that you want to lay on top of that are... ridiculous and artificial.

As for not having time to be both a top player and the world's greatest programmer, no one's asking you to excel in both - just play the game SOMETIME so you have some idea as to what you're doing. You berate fbi and stat tweaking precisely because you yourself are incompetent at it because you don't know how to play the very game you're trying to add to. 0o

*It's nice that you're adamant, Regi - wouldn't be any fun, otherwise. ~~

TheRegisteredOne · Post by **TheRegisteredOne** » 22 Sep 2007, 18:05

nice to see you are moving onto servers more and more strict about copyright: http://sourceforge.net/projects/tiredanni/

Tired wrote:As for not having time to be both a top player and the world's greatest programmer, no one's asking you to excel in both - just play the game SOMETIME so you have some idea as to what you're doing. You berate fbi and stat tweaking precisely because you yourself are incompetent at it because you don't know how to play the very game you're trying to add to. 0o

I guess z's definition of a modder is someone who can create a mod with only the modding tools and could do with no outside content.

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 22 Sep 2007, 19:08

You know, I just realized something... You can just send out a DMCA takedown notice to any place Tired uploads his mod.

Machiosabre · Post by **Machiosabre** » 22 Sep 2007, 19:44

! we could send a bag of poo to KDR's house and it'd probably get delivered!

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 23 Sep 2007, 04:05

Excuse me, but throwing legal documents around is not something I would like to start. This is a line we shall not cross as a community.

Peet · Post by **Peet** » 23 Sep 2007, 04:46

neddiedrow wrote:Excuse me, but throwing legal documents around is not something I would like to start. This is a line we shall not cross as a community.

Then what other option do content creators have to protect their work from theft, if the thieves do not cooperate?

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 23 Sep 2007, 05:14

It is not weapons you require, but tools. Force will not render effective results where reason cannot.

TheRegisteredOne · Post by **TheRegisteredOne** » 23 Sep 2007, 05:32

poop.
moderators lock thread?

Dragon45 · Post by **Dragon45** » 23 Sep 2007, 05:57

copyright infringement is not theft. read up on your fucking copyright law (whatever country you're from). there's very few places where the two are identical ( i cant think of any off the top of my head, even )

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 23 Sep 2007, 06:40

I am considering what should be done with this thread, but I'm not sure you've exhausted conversation.

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 23 Sep 2007, 10:04

neddiedrow wrote:It is not weapons you require, but tools. Force will not render effective results where reason cannot.

Force is if you show up at Tired's house with a rifle. The courts aren't force, they're society's way to regulate the reasoning.

tombom · Post by **tombom** » 23 Sep 2007, 10:46

Peet wrote:Then what other option do content creators have to protect their work from theft, if the thieves do not cooperate?

The idea of trying to go to a court of law over one person taking one model for non-profit reasons from another person who is not profiting for a non-profit game when about 20 people have played the former is really absurd.

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 23 Sep 2007, 11:26

A DMCA notice isn't going to court anyway, that's the point, quick removal of infringing material. I don't think it has any repercussions for the uploader.

JoseJoas · Post by **JoseJoas** » 23 Sep 2007, 16:56

Feel free to show up at my house with a rifle, KDR. I've got plenty of rifles of my own, and, even better, know how to use them. Then again, a coward like you would never make it past my dog. ~~

The difficulty is that many of you babies don't begin to understand the laws you attempt to hide behind. I'm using a model that someone else made and posted freely online. He doesn't like that. Pretty stupid of him to post it freely online then. He doesn't feel that the unit fits the "theme" of the army I've put it in. I don't think that the unit fits the theme of the army he put it in, given that it's originally Aeon. You all want to sit back and complain about it, which's all it seems you can do, because not a single one of you is a modder because you don't understand the context of the content you're trying to include or create. Way to be 1337.

Anyway, TA demands MOAR PUBLICITY! Quit hiding your shallow opinions in unrelated threads - make another Sissy Forum Hos against Tired thread. For the glory of the SFH! More people will read it that way. =)

Bring it.

Spring RTS Engine

We dont actual have TA...