Experimental mutator v3 (split from BA thread, PART 2)

TheFatController · Post by **TheFatController** » 06 Feb 2007, 16:13

Making Arm and Core bombs slightly different would be a nice touch in my oppinion, I'd suggest the Arm one be more of a kinetic explosion and the core more fiery

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 06 Feb 2007, 17:26

DemO wrote: Out of interest, how long does the bomb flash thing last for? It could be cool if it left some sort of burning ring on the ground after a quick explosion, which fades away after a short time (like burning ground).

hmm, that looked really ropey on the XTA d-gun

Foxomaniac · Post by **Foxomaniac** » 06 Feb 2007, 18:01

Alright :

L1 bombers :

Very easy on the FPS, quite nice to see and doesn't linger very long.

L2 ARM bombers :

Rather impressive effect, kinetic-style, dirt effects are larger than L1 bombers.

L2 Core bombers :

Think Firebomb, with a metal slug voice.

The effect lingers for a bit on the ground, but not so much :).

Live test sample :

http://froob.iamacup.com/ea/EAv325.sdz

I know there a few things wrong (Pyro flame / Burn ball / d-gun boomz ) , working on that

.

hunterw · Post by **hunterw** » 06 Feb 2007, 19:30

smoth wrote:
Now, gundam is meant to be a very colorful arcade-like style. However, the effects are shared because they can offer a workable base. My work that I released was meant for that. Now, as far as omgosh bloom looking stuff, yeah, when several impacts happen at once you will see that. I promise you, here are some pictures:

(as we say on 4chan, pics or it didn't happen)

However, unlike games like unreal, there are hundreds of explosions happening. These explosions when they happen single look like they do because if I make them REALLY glowy like the unreal stuff then it will just be a white blob in battle. Please take the above shots into consideration.

I am off to bed, I have to get up in a few hours. I'll read your response in the morning.

Here's what I think...

The biggest problem with sprite-based explosions is that they intersect with the ground. This really doesn't happen that much when people are playing, since they are in a top-down view, and the sprite doesn't hardly intersect with anything at that perspective.

From a side view it's obvious that they intersect with the ground, so here's what I suggest.

Make the horizontal shockwave ring the main, largest part of the explosion. Use oversaturation in the very center of it. A smaller sprite-based explosion will intersect with the ground from the side view still, but since it's intersecting with the oversaturated white shock ring on the ground, you will not be able to see the intersection.

You can still have very colorful explosions, but using oversaturated white in the middle of both textures to blend the shock ring on the bottom with the sprite will be pretty much the way to blend when looking from an angle. I've already mentioned it before, but you can always tweak the Z coordinate of the sprite up a little bit to prevent as much intersection as possible.

If my suggestions offend anybody, remember that I am entitled to my opinion. I don't want everything to look ZOMG UT2004 like some people assume, I just suggest what I think will help, and if it doesn't, it is no skin off of anybody's nose but mine for wasting my time typing it.

Fox, those are starting to look better and better. I'm going to D/L and check out what they look like from the side.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 06 Feb 2007, 20:28

I hate to tell you hunter... but all of the explosions you see on this thread will be white in a desert or snow map. I IMPLORE you to actually download Gundam1.1(it is pretty obivious you have not seen it) and take a look at the effects on different maps.

One in particular...
Snow(galcier pass, etc),
desert(okiriver,aaviko,etc),
darkmapss(coreprime rev2,cosmos)

from what I saw of you in the lobby you primaritlly played on your maps. Those maps are not going to show you what I need you to see.

Make the horizontal shockwave ring the main, largest part of the explosion. Use oversaturation in the very center of it. A smaller sprite-based explosion will intersect with the ground from the side view still, but since it's intersecting with the oversaturated white shock ring on the ground, you will not be able to see the intersection.

Here comes the fun part, some models when they die will not produce the shockwave, it is a bug with the ground flash, and IF the impact happens above the ground... the shockwave is not seen AT ALL. Above the ground being like the head or chest of a mech.

Fox, the same thing goes to you. you need to look at the effects on snow and desert maps. Having the particles last a very short time will allow you to display a lot of them. just a thought as you make large clouds of bloom.

Saktoth, if the effects looked muddy like they did in that origonal shot raise the contrast a bit. My sprites were all rush jobs so do replace them, some effect systems like csimpleparticle system like alpha, others like heatcloud hate alpha maps. Just a note because depending on what one you intend them for they can look very, very, different

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 06 Feb 2007, 20:33

Machiosabre wrote:they look cool, I think they just need to shoot up a bit of dirt so it looks a bit grittier.

Code: Select all

   [POOF00]
   {
   class=CSimpleParticleSystem;

      [properties]
      {
      Texture=randdots;

      colorMap   = 1.0 1.0 1.0 0.04   0.5 0.5 0.2 0.01   0.5 0.1 0.1 0.01;

            pos       = 0, 2, 0;
      gravity      = 0, -0.005, 0;
             emitVector   = 0, 1, 0;
      emitRot      = 45;
      emitRotSpread   = 32;

      sizeGrowth   = 0.8;
      sizeMod      = 1.0;

      airdrag         = 0.8;
      particleLife      = 5;
      particleLifeSpread   = 16;
      numParticles      = 16;
      particleSpeed      = 16;
      particleSpeedSpread   = 3;
      particleSize      = 5;
      particleSizeSpread   = 0;

      directional      = 0;
      useAirLos      = 0;
      }
   air=1;
   ground=1;
   count=1;
   }

   [dirt]
   {
      [properties]
      {
         size=20;
         color=0.2, 0.1, 0.05;
         alphaFalloff=2;
         speed= r1.5 r-1.5, 2, r1.5 r-1.5;
         pos=r-10 r10, 0, r-10 r10;
      }
      ground=1;
      count=4;
   }

Foxomaniac · Post by **Foxomaniac** » 06 Feb 2007, 21:04

Smoth, L1 bombers and Phoenix bombs do have dirt

(Although I only used the [DIRT] part and modified it, left out the CSIMPLEPARTICLESYSTEM using randdots).

Just tried my bomb FX on snow and desert maps, they're quite visible.

Only L1 bombs are a tad too white on really bright snow maps - on desert maps it's fine.

Maps I tested :

Snow (The cold place Remake v2, The Cold Place, FrostBite V2)
Desert (Aavikko v2, The Wastes V2)

One thing I'd like to know :

What system does spring use for the explosion gen?

1,1,1

with 1 being a number from 1 to 0.000 is a tad confusing >_____<.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 06 Feb 2007, 21:07

What system does spring use for the explosion gen?

ya' mean the default explosions?

Foxomaniac · Post by **Foxomaniac** » 06 Feb 2007, 21:12

Naw, the color system.

Oh and if possible, show moar code to pimp explosions other than particle system / dirt.

rattle · Post by **rattle** » 06 Feb 2007, 21:15

some effect systems like csimpleparticle system like alpha, others like heatcloud hate alpha maps.

Any particle which gets blended needs a texture with a black background and they will be whiteish on bright terrain due to the alpha blending or ugly when it's too dark. The others need to have an alpha channel but don't have issues with terrain brightness. I think this is what smoth is on about.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 06 Feb 2007, 21:25

Foxomaniac wrote:Naw, the color system.

Take the rgb value you want, say 32 then divide it by 256 then you shall get the value you need: 32/256 = 0.125

Foxomaniac wrote:Oh and if possible, show moar code to pimp explosions other than particle system / dirt.

What are you going to need? I am running off to class soon. However, when I get back I can generate a few for you.

Foxomaniac · Post by **Foxomaniac** » 06 Feb 2007, 22:00

Sphere stuff / stuff that could make a good com/nuke explosion

.

Rocket/Missile stuff maybe, heavy / Vlaunch and Medium/light.

Atm I don't really have an idea of what to do for missiles/cannons >_>.

hunterw · Post by **hunterw** » 06 Feb 2007, 23:12

smoth wrote:I hate to tell you hunter... but all of the explosions you see on this thread will be white in a desert or snow map.

Any explosions ever are going to be hard to see on a very bright desert or snow map, it's additive transparency and you're adding the bright texture of the explosion to the bright sand or snow texture behind it.

Smoke isn't additive transparency, so unless your map is dark grey it should be easily visible, but I don't think smoke should come until after the explosion has gone away.

I'd say it's up to the mappers to make sure their desert and snow textures are not too bright in-game.

All I have is the first Gundam you released, I will d/l 1.1

from what I saw of you in the lobby you primaritlly played on your maps. Those maps are not going to show you what I need you to see.

Yes, both are not very bright

Make the horizontal shockwave ring the main, largest part of the explosion. Use oversaturation in the very center of it. A smaller sprite-based explosion will intersect with the ground from the side view still, but since it's intersecting with the oversaturated white shock ring on the ground, you will not be able to see the intersection.
Here comes the fun part, some models when they die will not produce the shockwave, it is a bug with the ground flash, and IF the impact happens above the ground... the shockwave is not seen AT ALL. Above the ground being like the head or chest of a mech.

As long as this only occurs with dying units, effects for missiles or projectiles shouldn't be affected, and my method would work well at masking the sprite's intersection with the ground. That's actually pretty lucky if the bug only affects unit death explosions, since with projectiles the explosion will mostly be at ground level, whereas units blowing up will be higher above the ground, and thus the sprite will not intersect as much.

It's not optimal here - we have a ways to go before we have the ability to render volumetric stuff (clouds for instance). I think the first game I saw with volumetric explosions was Quake 2, and they were polygon-based...not pretty. Multitudes of sprites is really the only choice we have atm, and luckily they can look pretty damn good.

hunterw · Post by **hunterw** » 07 Feb 2007, 00:04

Most of the explosions in Gundam aren't from projectiles hitting the ground, so the ground clipping is rather infrequent. I have shown it in the last screenshot though, so it does happen, but probably not enough to worry about.

I do have a critique of one thing though, the smoke.

If the smoke and the explosion coexist, and you see the smoke in front of the explosion, it looks rather weird (all of these screenies depict this):

IRL, the fireball IS the smoke, it's just lit up very brightly by the excited electrons emitting photons yadda yadda science BS. Here's what I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qICsFekVvu8

It's only after the fireball is gone that you see the smoke as being dark, so I'd say to delay spawning the smoke until after the fireball is gone if you can.

Foxomaniac · Post by **Foxomaniac** » 07 Feb 2007, 00:07

Why are you arging about this again?

Take it somewhere else, this is to suggest new FX styles / feedback - not argue about how IRL explosions look like

.

I, for one, would love to know in what way should I do rocket/missile explosion FX.

hunterw · Post by **hunterw** » 07 Feb 2007, 00:14

LOL

LOLOL

I'm never going to offer any feedback for anyone in this community ever again.

Foxomaniac · Post by **Foxomaniac** » 07 Feb 2007, 00:19

I kinda lost you on the additive blending part you know.

I'm to put it simply, a n00b.

Right.

Bye!

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 07 Feb 2007, 01:15

Sphere stuff / stuff that could make a good com/nuke explosion Razz.

Explosion sphere will be availble in a later version but I cannot do it right now. Is there a similar look that you want? would a giant fireball suffice? do you need bits of stuff etc?

Rocket/Missile stuff maybe, heavy / Vlaunch and Medium/light.

You need explosions or flares? if you need explosions, what are you looknig for?

Atm I don't really have an idea of what to do for missiles/cannons >_>.

Are they solid shell cannons or are they explode on impact?

I will help where I can, if there is a specific look you want I can try and do it and if there isn't I can do something off the cuff to. Bear in mind that I may only have an hour or two per day that I can help but I can advise pretty quickly so if you need that I can do that as the day goes on.

Also, fantastic job so far!

-----------------------------------------------------
Hunter, you take things too personally, noone is attacking you, I have seen personal attacks the durration and lenght that has far surpased what is bothering you. If you continue this sort of huff and whine I will start ignoring you. However, your personal feelings are largely irrelevant as this is a thread about bettering the effects of BA.

the way spring renders smoke and fire makes doing a combination of the two difficult. I have since corrected that(as best I can) on many of the explosions:
http://cs.selu.edu/~ssmith/BB/download.php?id=1201
http://cs.selu.edu/~ssmith/BB/download.php?id=1205
http://cs.selu.edu/~ssmith/BB/download.php?id=1215
http://cs.selu.edu/~ssmith/BB/download.php?id=1216

Although, I cannot correct it for all explosions as the smoke will render through the additive blend:
http://cs.selu.edu/~ssmith/BB/download.php?id=1182

This is just the way the system works. if we want to have smoke we cannot get nice transitions from fire to smoke. Because we have no explosion animation/blending system. Not that IMO we need one.

LordMatt · Post by **LordMatt** » 07 Feb 2007, 01:21

I agree with demo. Lets be sure that all these enhancements don't either get in the way of gameplay or lag the game to hell. Otherwise, they look very nice.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 07 Feb 2007, 10:22

hunterw wrote:LOL

LOLOL

I'm never going to offer any feedback for anyone in this community ever again.

Good.

You have a bad habit of getting in the middle of discussions you know nothing about, sticking your foot in your mouth repeatedly, and then going off.

While I have said nothing about it up to this point, however. it is extremely annoying, so would you please stop?

Spring RTS Engine

Experimental mutator v3 (split from BA thread, PART 2)