What do you usually start a battle with? I always start by building:
4x solar
4x mex
1x vehicle plant ----- 2x construction vehicle ----- 3x LLT
5x jeffy (if speedmetal) 1x radar
lets see your build order
your starting build order
Moderator: Moderators
I Generally start this way:
3x wind gens (2x solars if the wind is low)
1x mex
1x vehicle factory (kbot if the map is full of mountais or I pretend to go air or sea)
3x constructors (while they are made the next things are done)
3x wind gens (2x solars if the wind is low)
Occupation of all nearby mexes.
And I recommend to everone to avoid starting with air even if you are supposed to be the air guy of your team because construction aircrafts are too inefficient and starting with em will slow you down.
3x wind gens (2x solars if the wind is low)
1x mex
1x vehicle factory (kbot if the map is full of mountais or I pretend to go air or sea)
3x constructors (while they are made the next things are done)
3x wind gens (2x solars if the wind is low)
Occupation of all nearby mexes.
And I recommend to everone to avoid starting with air even if you are supposed to be the air guy of your team because construction aircrafts are too inefficient and starting with em will slow you down.
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
It'd obviously mod dependent.
In BA you need to get your fac up ASAP to get more builders on the field, because on LLT and construction stuff alone there's no way the commander can use up resources fast enough with more then a few mex and a few energy structures. Your economy also doesn't start until you build your first E and M spammer. My build is generally 1 or 2 mex (depends on map) 3 wind, or 2 solar, and then a fac. The fac builds 3 cons first, one does mex spam, one does e spam, and one builds llt and stuff. Then the fac goes into unit spam mode for gators, producing the occasional con to keep economy chugging and replace lost cons.
In BA you need to get your fac up ASAP to get more builders on the field, because on LLT and construction stuff alone there's no way the commander can use up resources fast enough with more then a few mex and a few energy structures. Your economy also doesn't start until you build your first E and M spammer. My build is generally 1 or 2 mex (depends on map) 3 wind, or 2 solar, and then a fac. The fac builds 3 cons first, one does mex spam, one does e spam, and one builds llt and stuff. Then the fac goes into unit spam mode for gators, producing the occasional con to keep economy chugging and replace lost cons.
Its not only mod dependent its map dependent.
It's always striked me as strange why the vast majority of players start with a build que which they seemingly havnt really considered. I'll explain what I mean:
Wildferret is a perfect example, I'm assuming what he meant in his post is in consecutive order, i.e. 4 solars first then 4 mexs, well seriously, think about the implications of this: By making 4 solars before a mex you clearly have only your comm's metal income when you make these 4 solars - had you made 1 mex before the 4 solars you'd get around +1.5 extra metal per second (depending on whatever the map gives in metal per mex) whilst building all 4 of these solars - which takes a lot of seconds, thus you're going to have a reasonable amount of extra metal by doing this. Had you made 2 mex before your first four solars you're going to have average of around +3 metal/second extra for the entire time it takes to build these solars - giving you a hefty chunk of extra metal to use afterwards.
Its important to think about maximising metal for whatever start que works best on a particular map - for example if you want to make a lab with 2 mex then it's clearly the best option to make 2 mex's first (to get the income from these extractors before you make anything else). In BA you can get away with making 1 solar after 2 mex, then a lab, without stalling energy because you can make any other solars you want at no energy cost after you've made the first one and lab.
Quite simply, its always better to make whatever number of mex's you want BEFORE making other things where possible - instead of making 4 solars then 4 mex, make 4 mex then 4 solars if it won't cause you to stall E in doing so - which is the case in any situation where the mex's are sufficiently spread out that your comm spends a few seconds walking between each point allowing stored energy to increase again between building each mex. In the case that you would stall energy on the 3rd or fourth mex, make a solar or wind then, and make the 3rd/4th mex before making any more energy.
Personally though, starting with 4 mex then energy is not a smart move - you're likely to get rushed by someone that starts by making a lab after 1 or 2 mex, plus you can't rush anyone else by making a lab so late.
Average players that dont want the hassle of worrying about stalling energy at the start of the game should make at least 4 solars or the equivelent in wind, but as you become more scrutinous of your build order it becomes necessary to make solars as you need them.
Example: My start on comet catcher team game is usually (but not always) 2 mex, 1 solar, vec lab, 1 solar, then I assist a single con on my lab with a comm to the point that I nearly stall energy, then i make a 3rd solar whilst the con finishes and begins to assist the lab to make weasels (which cost a lot of energy), then i make a mex, an llt, and a 4th solar. This que puts my energy reserves on the very brink of stalling whilst not actually hindering build speed - its a que that maximises the speed at which you can get a lab with 2 mex and a con to assist, aswell as a 3rd mex and llt up quickly without making excess energy first, as opposed to a situation where you go mex mex solar solar lab solar solar (effectively making an extra solar before the lab, then two after before you think about a 3rd mex or llt).
So basically, THINK about the implications of your build orders. They should vary from map to map usually, in order to get the best start for any particular map. There is a balance to be found between the speed of your start (how quickly you need a lab and/or llt) and the maximisation of metal, whilst keeping energy production enough that you don't stall and lose worker time.
Once you have a basic, solid build que where you can que orders for your comm then sit back and watch him do them, you're doing well. After that if you want to further improve your que it is often necessary to que things as you need them - you control your commander much more actively rather than making a que then leaving him to do it, for example your que ends where the lab is made, then you use your commander to assist the lab for a specific period of time, before moving on to do other things, and build energy structures and defenses as you need them. This requires more micro and more clicks/min to manage your commander, lab que, cons and scouting/attacking units all at the same time, but if you want to get the most out of your start, and effectively get an advantage in resources or speed, this is what you have to do.
It's always striked me as strange why the vast majority of players start with a build que which they seemingly havnt really considered. I'll explain what I mean:
Wildferret is a perfect example, I'm assuming what he meant in his post is in consecutive order, i.e. 4 solars first then 4 mexs, well seriously, think about the implications of this: By making 4 solars before a mex you clearly have only your comm's metal income when you make these 4 solars - had you made 1 mex before the 4 solars you'd get around +1.5 extra metal per second (depending on whatever the map gives in metal per mex) whilst building all 4 of these solars - which takes a lot of seconds, thus you're going to have a reasonable amount of extra metal by doing this. Had you made 2 mex before your first four solars you're going to have average of around +3 metal/second extra for the entire time it takes to build these solars - giving you a hefty chunk of extra metal to use afterwards.
Its important to think about maximising metal for whatever start que works best on a particular map - for example if you want to make a lab with 2 mex then it's clearly the best option to make 2 mex's first (to get the income from these extractors before you make anything else). In BA you can get away with making 1 solar after 2 mex, then a lab, without stalling energy because you can make any other solars you want at no energy cost after you've made the first one and lab.
Quite simply, its always better to make whatever number of mex's you want BEFORE making other things where possible - instead of making 4 solars then 4 mex, make 4 mex then 4 solars if it won't cause you to stall E in doing so - which is the case in any situation where the mex's are sufficiently spread out that your comm spends a few seconds walking between each point allowing stored energy to increase again between building each mex. In the case that you would stall energy on the 3rd or fourth mex, make a solar or wind then, and make the 3rd/4th mex before making any more energy.
Personally though, starting with 4 mex then energy is not a smart move - you're likely to get rushed by someone that starts by making a lab after 1 or 2 mex, plus you can't rush anyone else by making a lab so late.
Average players that dont want the hassle of worrying about stalling energy at the start of the game should make at least 4 solars or the equivelent in wind, but as you become more scrutinous of your build order it becomes necessary to make solars as you need them.
Example: My start on comet catcher team game is usually (but not always) 2 mex, 1 solar, vec lab, 1 solar, then I assist a single con on my lab with a comm to the point that I nearly stall energy, then i make a 3rd solar whilst the con finishes and begins to assist the lab to make weasels (which cost a lot of energy), then i make a mex, an llt, and a 4th solar. This que puts my energy reserves on the very brink of stalling whilst not actually hindering build speed - its a que that maximises the speed at which you can get a lab with 2 mex and a con to assist, aswell as a 3rd mex and llt up quickly without making excess energy first, as opposed to a situation where you go mex mex solar solar lab solar solar (effectively making an extra solar before the lab, then two after before you think about a 3rd mex or llt).
So basically, THINK about the implications of your build orders. They should vary from map to map usually, in order to get the best start for any particular map. There is a balance to be found between the speed of your start (how quickly you need a lab and/or llt) and the maximisation of metal, whilst keeping energy production enough that you don't stall and lose worker time.
Once you have a basic, solid build que where you can que orders for your comm then sit back and watch him do them, you're doing well. After that if you want to further improve your que it is often necessary to que things as you need them - you control your commander much more actively rather than making a que then leaving him to do it, for example your que ends where the lab is made, then you use your commander to assist the lab for a specific period of time, before moving on to do other things, and build energy structures and defenses as you need them. This requires more micro and more clicks/min to manage your commander, lab que, cons and scouting/attacking units all at the same time, but if you want to get the most out of your start, and effectively get an advantage in resources or speed, this is what you have to do.
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Machiosabre
- Posts: 1474
- Joined: 25 Dec 2005, 22:56
For EE URC I find you can get a factory up much faster by immediatly building a hub and then buildign the factory while your commander reclaims nearby energy. Then the com builds mexes and the hub builds a reactor.
But for most maps
reactor->hub-> hub builds(factory +radar) com builds(mexes and turrets)
But for most maps
reactor->hub-> hub builds(factory +radar) com builds(mexes and turrets)
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1v0ry_k1ng
- Posts: 4656
- Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 10:24
+1DemO wrote:Quite simply, its always better to make whatever number of mex's you want BEFORE making other things where possible - instead of making 4 solars then 4 mex, make 4 mex then 4 solars if it won't cause you to stall E in doing so - which is the case in any situation where the mex's are sufficiently spread out that your comm spends a few seconds walking between each point allowing stored energy to increase again between building each mex. In the case that you would stall energy on the 3rd or fourth mex, make a solar or wind then, and make the 3rd/4th mex before making any more energy
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Fat Zombie
- Posts: 61
- Joined: 31 May 2006, 19:16
Huh. These build orders do make more sense. I usually:
Build three solars
Build a Kbot Lab
Then queue up any close-by mexes for the commander, followed by some extra power thingies.
Meanwhile, I build four construction Kbots; first builds a large grid of power (although this now seems a silly idea), the second builds a vehicle factory and some nanotowers, the third some energy storage, and the fourth builds defenses (LLT/Swarm LLTs, dragon's teeth, etc).
Recently I've taken to building a couple of minelayers from the vehicle factory and making them build large fields around the furthest mexes.
Now i've read these guy's posts, I may start with 2/3 mexes, 3 solar/wind, then a vehicle lab. (I don't know why, but I have some sort of preference towards con. kbots rather than wheeled ones. Odd.)
Build three solars
Build a Kbot Lab
Then queue up any close-by mexes for the commander, followed by some extra power thingies.
Meanwhile, I build four construction Kbots; first builds a large grid of power (although this now seems a silly idea), the second builds a vehicle factory and some nanotowers, the third some energy storage, and the fourth builds defenses (LLT/Swarm LLTs, dragon's teeth, etc).
Recently I've taken to building a couple of minelayers from the vehicle factory and making them build large fields around the furthest mexes.
Now i've read these guy's posts, I may start with 2/3 mexes, 3 solar/wind, then a vehicle lab. (I don't know why, but I have some sort of preference towards con. kbots rather than wheeled ones. Odd.)
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1v0ry_k1ng
- Posts: 4656
- Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 10:24
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Fat Zombie
- Posts: 61
- Joined: 31 May 2006, 19:16
Really? I mean, I never know what to build with a vehicle factory. (To be honest, I've only just got the hang of this, and my bad habit is to wait until I have enough resources, build some nanotowers, and constantly build instigators. :D)1v0ry_k1ng wrote:good tip; never make more E than you have to. make mex first, then the minimal solars needed to run factory.
Okay then, I'll try that.
Fat Zombie think about it. Early game you are likely to repeatedly stall metal rather than energy (or stall metal badly and energy only for a short time). Thus metal is a resource you need to maximise at the start, so making 3 solars then a lab before you even invest in a metal extractor is clearly not very logical if you want to last more than the first 2 minutes without stalling metal. (Course this is on a map that gives 1.x-2.x metal/mex - if you play speedmetal or any high metal maps obviously its not going to be as much of an issue)