Okay I cut almost a page of flames out of this thread. I probably missed something, so feel free to send me a PM about it. It is very late where I am, and I have a hard exam to study for tomorrow. That means this thread is staying locked for now. IF YOU HAD ONE OF YOUR POSTS DELETED OR EDITED, CONSIDER YOURSELF WARNED FOR FLAMING There were too many people involved and it is far to late for me to send everyone a personal message warning them for their content. If this flaming continues elsewhere, those involved will be recommended for a BAN, so please let this be the last of it.
Now, I have two posts in my PM box that I will add to this thread. If you want something else to add, like to apologize for your flaming as one participant has done, feel free to send your message to me in a PM.
NewMap: Hydraiel
Moderator: Moderators
From j5mello:
"People can we plz calm down lets look at this logically:
1. Picasso had no possible way of knowing that hunterw spent massive amounts of time making that sky regardless of the hunterws maps's name or anything else and lacking that knowledge released his map as is...
2. hunterw while you may have spent all that time creating that map if you had wanted people to give you credit for that sky setting you should have said so in the smd.
3. Picasso specifically puts in his post that the sky is yours not his so any confusion as to who created the sky should be alleviated. The fact alone that he used ur sky probably means he likes it and should be taken as a compliment as well as making the requirement you put foward which was credit for the sky.
4. Contrary to recent events open sharing between members esp here in the mapping forums is quite common place (things like textures, features, and other elements) and you may need to adjust your work style to take that into effect. Essentially if you feel that you want to protect/claim/etc some setting or texture or what-have-you plz specify that in your smd or some other place where it will be noticed immeadiately. I don't meant to be blunt or harsh or anything else that can be viewed negatively im just trying to give some helpful adivce.
5. finally can we all just calm the hell down. I leave for two days and the whole forum explodes in content creator vs. content creator arguements that bode ill for not only the relationships they directly affect, but future ones as well. while disputes will happen dealing with them civily and quitely is the best way to keep the peace and bring the community close together."
"People can we plz calm down lets look at this logically:
1. Picasso had no possible way of knowing that hunterw spent massive amounts of time making that sky regardless of the hunterws maps's name or anything else and lacking that knowledge released his map as is...
2. hunterw while you may have spent all that time creating that map if you had wanted people to give you credit for that sky setting you should have said so in the smd.
3. Picasso specifically puts in his post that the sky is yours not his so any confusion as to who created the sky should be alleviated. The fact alone that he used ur sky probably means he likes it and should be taken as a compliment as well as making the requirement you put foward which was credit for the sky.
4. Contrary to recent events open sharing between members esp here in the mapping forums is quite common place (things like textures, features, and other elements) and you may need to adjust your work style to take that into effect. Essentially if you feel that you want to protect/claim/etc some setting or texture or what-have-you plz specify that in your smd or some other place where it will be noticed immeadiately. I don't meant to be blunt or harsh or anything else that can be viewed negatively im just trying to give some helpful adivce.
5. finally can we all just calm the hell down. I leave for two days and the whole forum explodes in content creator vs. content creator arguements that bode ill for not only the relationships they directly affect, but future ones as well. while disputes will happen dealing with them civily and quitely is the best way to keep the peace and bring the community close together."
From Forboding Angel:
Ok, as things have gotten a bit heated around here. I would like to take the time to apologize to Hunterw for coming at him so mean.
What I should have said is like this:
Ok, as things have gotten a bit heated around here. I would like to take the time to apologize to Hunterw for coming at him so mean.
What I should have said is like this:
Again, I should have resisted the urge to get upset at you, and explained it to you more indepth and rationally, and for that I apologize.Hunterw, those settings are simply color code and they are swapped freely between mappers. It is not something that deserves credit. I understand that you spent quite some time doing it, and I am not deriding you for taking so much time...
However, that is the way it works in the spring mapping community. There is much give and take. Skyboxes are a different story. Skyboxes cry for credit, as they take a lot of work to get right, and anyone doing them definately deserves to receive credit. As it stands, I don't appreciate you coming after Picasso for copying smd settings. That is not how things are done here.
For that matter, Maelstroms SMD creator can help you get really nice colors with a minimum amount of effort in a very short period of time.
Please don't flame other mappers for copying smd settings. It's detrimental to what we are trying to accomplish here.
From hunterw (edited):
"I apologize that I was not aware that .smd files were traded as the normal here, but that is beside the issue. I've mapped for a plethora of games, and in virtually every mod/mapping community but here, there is a moral rule of not using others' work without permission. I know lots of people here probably never even see the sky of maps they play, but what it boils down to is that when I spend hours working on something, all I'd like to be asked if it can be used - it's just common courtesy. If he asked, I would've agreed. For further evidence of this, note that even though he didn't ask, I granted him permission. If you think by this that somehow a copyright was involved, I don't think there is hope for you to understand my side of the argument - this is morals and morals alone.
The fact that .smd files are easily copied and modified to me is rather moot. There are about a dozen RGB values that took a long time to tweak just right. Sure, you can make a sky from scratch in 5 minutes like someone in the thread said - but that means you've just picked some colors and compiled the map. It is very hard to get a nice sky this way, because before you compile and view the sky inside of the game, you have no idea what it will look like!
Like I said, I'm sure a lot of mappers here, and even more players hardly ever even look at the sky, but that doesn't mean that I didn't care about it. I've never seen another map with a sky like that - it made my map unique, which as a mapper I am always striving to accomplish. Never did I say anything about a copyright - people are just putting words in my mouth. All I ever said was that it was rather uncouth to take my exact sky out of a map that's been released for not even two days and use it in a level without asking me. This is just a moral issue.
[snip]
I apologize for [snip] flaming back - I should've never used profanity.
I also apologize for inadvertently causing a mapper's thread to get locked - please note that I have absolutely nothing against him and never did, all of my flames were in response to very out-of-line comments made by [others]. I think before more incidents like this arise, there needs to be a consensus made about what is fair game to copy from someone else's map and what is not."
"I apologize that I was not aware that .smd files were traded as the normal here, but that is beside the issue. I've mapped for a plethora of games, and in virtually every mod/mapping community but here, there is a moral rule of not using others' work without permission. I know lots of people here probably never even see the sky of maps they play, but what it boils down to is that when I spend hours working on something, all I'd like to be asked if it can be used - it's just common courtesy. If he asked, I would've agreed. For further evidence of this, note that even though he didn't ask, I granted him permission. If you think by this that somehow a copyright was involved, I don't think there is hope for you to understand my side of the argument - this is morals and morals alone.
The fact that .smd files are easily copied and modified to me is rather moot. There are about a dozen RGB values that took a long time to tweak just right. Sure, you can make a sky from scratch in 5 minutes like someone in the thread said - but that means you've just picked some colors and compiled the map. It is very hard to get a nice sky this way, because before you compile and view the sky inside of the game, you have no idea what it will look like!
Like I said, I'm sure a lot of mappers here, and even more players hardly ever even look at the sky, but that doesn't mean that I didn't care about it. I've never seen another map with a sky like that - it made my map unique, which as a mapper I am always striving to accomplish. Never did I say anything about a copyright - people are just putting words in my mouth. All I ever said was that it was rather uncouth to take my exact sky out of a map that's been released for not even two days and use it in a level without asking me. This is just a moral issue.
[snip]
I apologize for [snip] flaming back - I should've never used profanity.
I also apologize for inadvertently causing a mapper's thread to get locked - please note that I have absolutely nothing against him and never did, all of my flames were in response to very out-of-line comments made by [others]. I think before more incidents like this arise, there needs to be a consensus made about what is fair game to copy from someone else's map and what is not."