1: If you are out of metal your constructing speed will decrease even more if you put more bots to build things? (I know it sounds obvius its yes but i wanna be sure)
2: Then you decimate/crush a wreck the small pieces that will stay on its place will have the same amount of metal?
3: if you extract a lot of metal from a still-not-decimated wreck you may make it become small pieces?
Metal related questions
Moderator: Moderators
-
Felix the Cat
- Posts: 2383
- Joined: 15 Jun 2005, 17:30
Not quite... I've been wondering for a while how Spring allocates limited resource incomes. You'd think it would be evenly divided, but it seems that it isn't - I've had situations in which I was M-stalling, and a single con truck built an LLT faster than my comm did, even though the comm has 3x the nano speed of a con truck.aGorm wrote:1: Yes, each project will get slower.
It seems to me that each "nano-particle" costs a certain amount of metal which is based on the workertime of the unit. Since the comm has a beter workertime than a con unit, he can't spit out his expensive nanoparticles because the cons are using up the metal before he has enough to spit one out.
Last edited by Decimator on 30 Nov 2006, 14:35, edited 1 time in total.
Deci is correct. Think of it this way...
Imagine you have 1 conbot, 1 commander, and 1 extractor. Both the commander and the conbot are building something. You have +5 metal/tick from the extractor. The conbot has workertime 3, the com has workertime 10. In other words, every nano blob from the conbot "costs" 3 metal while adding 3 metal to the thing he is building, while every nanoblob from the commander "costs" 10 metal and adds 10 metal to what he is building.
So in a given turn, you have 5 metal to work with. The commander CAN NOT put out a nanoblob - they cost 10 metal. However, the conbot can. So the conbot will spend 3 metal income, and run at full speed. The other two metal will "disapear" but actually be used by the commander charging up a partial nanoblob. So every 5 turns, the extra 2 metal/turn will build up and the commander will spit out a nanoblob.
Now, in the end result, the conbot runs at 3 metal per tick. However the commander runs at 10 metal every 5 ticks, or 2 metal per tick. In other words, the conbot is actually building FASTER than the commander.
The Gamplay lesson to take from this is that if you really need an LLT in a hurry to defend an area, but your economy is stalled, you are better off building it with a conbot or other "low impact" con rather than the commander.
Imagine you have 1 conbot, 1 commander, and 1 extractor. Both the commander and the conbot are building something. You have +5 metal/tick from the extractor. The conbot has workertime 3, the com has workertime 10. In other words, every nano blob from the conbot "costs" 3 metal while adding 3 metal to the thing he is building, while every nanoblob from the commander "costs" 10 metal and adds 10 metal to what he is building.
So in a given turn, you have 5 metal to work with. The commander CAN NOT put out a nanoblob - they cost 10 metal. However, the conbot can. So the conbot will spend 3 metal income, and run at full speed. The other two metal will "disapear" but actually be used by the commander charging up a partial nanoblob. So every 5 turns, the extra 2 metal/turn will build up and the commander will spit out a nanoblob.
Now, in the end result, the conbot runs at 3 metal per tick. However the commander runs at 10 metal every 5 ticks, or 2 metal per tick. In other words, the conbot is actually building FASTER than the commander.
The Gamplay lesson to take from this is that if you really need an LLT in a hurry to defend an area, but your economy is stalled, you are better off building it with a conbot or other "low impact" con rather than the commander.
-
CalledGothic
- Posts: 16
- Joined: 22 Aug 2006, 17:34
Even if your metal usage GREATLY outpaces your production, more con units on a single assignment actually do build faster. I've noticed this with vehicle factories with a few nanoturrets around them, the vehfac builds slowly but when I tell the nanoturrets to assist, the progress becomes more staggered but faster overall.
1) Theorically when you're low on ressource, the available ressource should be divided amongst builder so each gets a share proportionnal to how much it'd use if ressources were plentiful. But Spring isn't perfect, and some says there are bugs in how Spring handle nanostalling economy.
2) Usually when you crush or explode a wreck, it becomes another wreck with has less metal. But that is mod defined. By editing the text files in /features/ a modder can make crushed wreck yeld exactly as much metal, or more, or weirder things.
3) In TA usually when you reclaim a wreck it becomes a black scorch mark. But Spring initially didn't handle 2D .gaf, so in Spring reclaimed feature turn into nothing. However again it is mod defined. A modder can make reclaimed feature turn into other feature. I once made a feature that once reclaimed turned into itself. So when a cons was given a single reclaim order on it, the feature would be reclaimed, metal gained by the cons, and the featured turned into itself, so reclaimable again. However when I used a zone reclaim, Spring didn't liked it and crashed. I guess it fell into some sort of infinite loop or something. It was many version ago, so hopefully this has been fixed. I once wanted to do a map with red alert 1 style ore field, with reclaimable feature turning into smaller reclaimable feature when reclaimed.
As far as I know in Spring, like in TA, incremental reclaim has not been coded (yet?). When you reclaim a feature, the cons is busy reclaiming for a while while you gain nothing, and once it's done you get all the metal at once. So reclaiming the same wreck by multiple cons doesn't speed the progress, and if you stop a hour long reclaim one second before it's finished, you get nothing and must start all over. So reclaimed wreck don't gradually turn into smaller pieces when being reclaimed.
But it'd be best to test than to rely on what I just said, I may be a couple versions behind.
2) Usually when you crush or explode a wreck, it becomes another wreck with has less metal. But that is mod defined. By editing the text files in /features/ a modder can make crushed wreck yeld exactly as much metal, or more, or weirder things.
3) In TA usually when you reclaim a wreck it becomes a black scorch mark. But Spring initially didn't handle 2D .gaf, so in Spring reclaimed feature turn into nothing. However again it is mod defined. A modder can make reclaimed feature turn into other feature. I once made a feature that once reclaimed turned into itself. So when a cons was given a single reclaim order on it, the feature would be reclaimed, metal gained by the cons, and the featured turned into itself, so reclaimable again. However when I used a zone reclaim, Spring didn't liked it and crashed. I guess it fell into some sort of infinite loop or something. It was many version ago, so hopefully this has been fixed. I once wanted to do a map with red alert 1 style ore field, with reclaimable feature turning into smaller reclaimable feature when reclaimed.
As far as I know in Spring, like in TA, incremental reclaim has not been coded (yet?). When you reclaim a feature, the cons is busy reclaiming for a while while you gain nothing, and once it's done you get all the metal at once. So reclaiming the same wreck by multiple cons doesn't speed the progress, and if you stop a hour long reclaim one second before it's finished, you get nothing and must start all over. So reclaimed wreck don't gradually turn into smaller pieces when being reclaimed.
But it'd be best to test than to rely on what I just said, I may be a couple versions behind.
Yeah, it's not working consistently, one needs only read the three last posts by Argh and me... I think Argh's working on fixing it when he has time.zwzsg wrote:1) Theorically when you're low on ressource, the available ressource should be divided amongst builder so each gets a share proportionnal to how much it'd use if ressources were plentiful. But Spring isn't perfect, and some says there are bugs in how Spring handle nanostalling economy.
It would change mod balance though as estalling/mstalling would have different effects as currently.
Thanks for the anwsers guys. Actual there is a mod (AA I think) where you gain metal as you reclaim the wreck, with even the game crashing if you try to revive a a little reclained wreck.
I now have a doubt about energy: It seems to me that them your energy production gets really high, you dont suffer energy stall anymore, even if your waste is bigger. The energy bar just keeps coming and going like its production was too great to allow it to fall to 0 and I dont notice reduction on building speed. Is this true?
I now have a doubt about energy: It seems to me that them your energy production gets really high, you dont suffer energy stall anymore, even if your waste is bigger. The energy bar just keeps coming and going like its production was too great to allow it to fall to 0 and I dont notice reduction on building speed. Is this true?