[BAR] New Name, new logo writing? - Page 2

[BAR] New Name, new logo writing?

Balanced Annihilation with remade Units

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gajop
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Re: [BAR] New Name, new logo writing?

Post by gajop » 07 Sep 2014, 20:03

I don't think having two names is a good idea.
Using "Spring project" is just fine (there's more here than just the engine).
Prefer if you used the official Spring logo as well, but I don't think it's very important.
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Silentwings
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Re: [BAR] New Name, new logo writing?

Post by Silentwings » 07 Sep 2014, 22:22

Yes, I agree that "The Spring Project" sounds nicer, and certainly we depend on more from Spring than "just" an engine.

My current plan is to place both the Spring and BAR logos onto the credits tab of the main menu, with equal promonince to the list of names. The only reason it isn't already there (there is a blank space waiting atm) is because its quicker to do both at once and the BAR logo does not exist yet.

I expect that we won't display the Spring logo on the splash screens, just to avoid clutter (it already says "Spring XX.X" in plain text there), but if there was a general desire to see Springs logo on games splash screens then I'd have no problem with doing it.
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Sereiya
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Re: [BAR] New Name, new logo writing?

Post by Sereiya » 30 Oct 2014, 01:32

Sorry for my absence.

While I was thinking about the logo and trailer I tried to make something in relation to the ARM and CORE logo - but since there isn't much of a story or, well, something, I spent most of the time staring into space. Two questions ran through my mind:
  • Will the ARM and CORE logo and even the names stay the same in the final release?
  • Shall there be any story, will it be a successor to TA, is there any other plan about it?
There are several reasons why this questions could be important, most of all to attract new players. At least it's important for me, it would be easier to make some media stuff.
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SinbadEV
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Re: [BAR] New Name, new logo writing?

Post by SinbadEV » 30 Oct 2014, 03:37

(I am working on the assumption you were opening the floor to the peanut gallery, I have no idea what y'all have got planned, I am not any part of the BAR project)

OK, so the way I understand BAR is that it's another uncountable number of years in the future of the TA conflict... the ARM and the CORE have destroyed so much of each others infrastructure that an accurate concept of their history has been lost and they no longer know what they are fighting for... just that they are right and thus must refuse to give up the fight... it had stopped being about anything but the total annihilation of their opponents when the evens of total annihilation took place but now they just live to continue fighting.

So... working from there... all they would have to work with is their own technological reality, the ARM are the clones and the CORE are the technologically ascended.

ARM = ONCE, as in, "These scraps of biological synapse that we incorporate into ourselves must have once been part of something else."

CORE = PURE, as in "Our enemy has scraps biological synapse incorporated into themselves and are our enemy, thus our lack of these things means we are pure.

Glitch here is that it spins PURE as being totally the bad guy... so let's try again with ARM being bad.

ARM = SCAR, "Not sure how we lost our humanity... but it's go to be our enemies fault."

CORE = SOUL, our humanity persist in our personality matrices as commune with each other in harmony, we only seek to exist in perpetual peace.

Or whatever...

IP wise what I'm saying is that it would be best if you filed off as many serial numbers as possible... it's definitely "meant" to be a continuation of TA but "in universe" that heritage is forgotten.
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Re: [BAR] New Name, new logo writing?

Post by gajop » 30 Oct 2014, 05:13

Best if you don't imply any direct connections with TA, except as a "spiritual successor". It would suck if BAR had to be closed due to any IP violations.

There is no need to rely on TA's story, which wasn't that memorable. Start fresh and definitely make a campaign, players will want that.

Regarding the campaign, BAR devs should probably write a bit (10-20 sentences tops) about the setting and then whoever plans to actually make the missions can come up with a story.

To whoever makes the missions, I'd look a bit at the divinity original sin as to how to design them, and actually focus on creating "puzzles" rather than custom-map skirmish that have a bit of story put in like most older RTS games did. The problem-solving approach should ideally differ greatly from mission to mission, which would rely mostly on human intelligence rather than skirmish-game knowledge (not to say that skirmish skill should be irrelevant though).

The before mentioned focus feels especially true since it's very hard to create appropriate eye/ear candy - you need a lot of manpower to create art, not to mention cutscenes, and it feels wrong to create missions just for those reasons: it's the story+gameplay should be the thing that pulls you in.
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Silentwings
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Re: [BAR] New Name, new logo writing?

Post by Silentwings » 30 Oct 2014, 10:47

Will the ARM and CORE logo and even the names stay the same in the final release? Shall there be any story, will it be a successor to TA, is there any other plan about it?
At the moment none of this has been decided (or got close to the top of the todo list, at least for me!). For now feel free to suggest faction names/logos.

Personally I'd prefer to see trailers advertise the look of the game and showcase cutscenes from big team games, than focus on some storyline. Video game stories are always to bare to have any impact on me.
... whoever plans to actually make the missions can come up with a story.
The missions already (mostly) exist and each has their own story. We did think of an overarching storyline to link them into a campaign, years ago, but after actually making the missions it doesn't fit too well. So this is currently also on the todo list (along with the single player interface) - this one is fairly near the top.
creating "puzzles" rather than custom-map skirmish
As it stands, there are both in approximately equal proportions. I even managed to construct some logic puzzles (as opposed to "discover how to do this" puzzles) built out of BAR units and gameplay mechanisms - I'd be interested to hear anyone else with ideas for doing that.
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Sereiya
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Re: [BAR] New Name, new logo writing?

Post by Sereiya » 30 Oct 2014, 14:15

Silentwings wrote:Personally I'd prefer to see trailers advertise the look of the game and showcase cutscenes from big team games, than focus on some storyline. Video game stories are always to bare to have any impact on me.
I would also love to use footage from some big team games. But there are no really BAR matches at all. :roll: At the moment, I can just show snippets ported from BA with a recording lua.
I didn't wanted to focus on a story in the first video, but since I'll probably make more than one, there will be some kind of "Story Trailer", too. For me, a good story and setting is one of the most important things of a game. The story doesn't need to be long, but long enough to attract me emotionaly. I guess there are many players out there who think likewise.
I've some ideas for faction logos in my mind, 'll presumably work on them when I'm home tonight. Maybe with a little side story? :roll:
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smoth
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Re: [BAR] New Name, new logo writing?

Post by smoth » 30 Oct 2014, 14:28

using footage in an FMV is dumb. 1, the game will change appearance in time, 2 it will never be the right aspect ratio etc. I always prefer in game cutscenes when possible. Isn't this a side discussion though and nothing really to do with logos?
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Silentwings
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Re: [BAR] New Name, new logo writing?

Post by Silentwings » 30 Oct 2014, 14:33

I would also love to use footage from some big team games. But there are no really BAR matches at all. :roll: At the moment, I can just show snippets ported from BA with a recording lua.
You could sound slightly grateful that someone went to the trouble of making this even possible or make some effort to explain what is not suitable about it (its main purpose is actually debugging, but it can be adapted in other directions if there is a need) ... but the reality is, if you want to do this now, that's all you're going to have to work with.
using footage in an FMV is dumb.
I think this is just for a "fan" youtube style video, I certainly don't plan on having cutscenes in the missions.
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smoth
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Re: [BAR] New Name, new logo writing?

Post by smoth » 30 Oct 2014, 14:57

<3 thanks!
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hoijui
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Re: [BAR] New Name, new logo writing?

Post by hoijui » 30 Oct 2014, 15:12

in the year -333, on planet earth, greece:
after the invention of the concept of the atom, two philosophers are discussing:
one thinks, the goal of the universe is, to create the perfect gray goo. the other thinks, the goal is that there be no information duplicity. this is the first visible spark. over the centuries, new inventions are made, adding tiny bits of thunder, keeping the blaze alive, yet unnoticeable in the noise of what is the human society. but finally, in the year 2222, after humanity is peacefully united, racism unknown, poverty eradicated, peace between biological, electronic and mixed beings achieved, a sane balance with nature omnipresent, exploration of space rules agreed upon, police is protecting the citizens and finally all texts circulating are written in a gender neutral way, the immense thinking apparatus of global society throws itself if our blaze, and - with unseen enthusiasm and splits through all its sub-structures, in an instant, lights up the last war there may be in this universe (regarding this society) for: the true faith of entropy
estimated time of resolution: 4000 years

i would like a story with which would actually be thought provoking.. like.. practically disputing things that are bad today, and taken for "is like that, was always like that, will never change" by too many, and are thus not changing. just imagine .. if you would succeed.. you could get good critiques from sociologists and what not. you could even attract sociology students writing campaign stories as final thesis to wakeup gamers and convert them into revolutionaries, and one day, the balance of annihilation will be known as the origin of the successful world peace revolution.
... or just stick to nice videos and units. nothing wrong with that.
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Sereiya
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Re: [BAR] New Name, new logo writing?

Post by Sereiya » 30 Oct 2014, 17:46

Silentwings wrote:You could sound slightly grateful that someone went to the trouble of making this even possible or make some effort to explain what is not suitable about it
Sorry, I didn't intend to sound ungrateful. :(
smoth wrote:using footage in an FMV is dumb. 1, the game will change appearance in time, 2 it will never be the right aspect ratio etc. I always prefer in game cutscenes when possible. Isn't this a side discussion though and nothing really to do with logos?
Since I'm planing to do something like a game trailer the aspect ratio will be 16:9, since this is the current standard in such kind of videos. Perhaps we should discuss that in another thread.
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smoth
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Re: [BAR] New Name, new logo writing?

Post by smoth » 30 Oct 2014, 19:28

I misunderstood it to be as a part of the missions.
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Re: [BAR] New Name, new logo writing?

Post by RageQ » 11 Dec 2014, 19:37

Logos need to depict what is actually being sold

Image


And regarding the story, anything beyond "In the grim darkness of the future, there is only war" is edgy fedora tipping bumlove.
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