Dev meeting minutes 2012-03-05 - Page 2

Dev meeting minutes 2012-03-05

Minutes of the meetings between Spring developers are archived here.
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Forboding Angel
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2012-03-05

Post by Forboding Angel » 07 Mar 2012, 03:53

Why do I get the feeling that this is Abma's way of forcing me to update my mapping guide? :mrgreen:
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abma
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2012-03-05

Post by abma » 07 Mar 2012, 04:04

@Forb:
no. thats a general problem in the forum/wiki. seems to fit to most of the forums in "Content Creation" and other places as well. your tutorial is just a very good example.
an other one: http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=12382
(Game & Module Development Tutorials & Resources)
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Forboding Angel
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2012-03-05

Post by Forboding Angel » 07 Mar 2012, 06:08

Well I've started on an updated tutorial. If anyone wants to help, feel free. If you're an idiot and know scat about mapmaking, hands off mah page!

http://springrts.com/wiki/Creating_a_ma ... _blueprint

This tutorial is not holding someone's hand in using an image editor. it assumes that the aspiring mapmaker isn't a complete dumbass and is capable of creating his own textures.

This will be going bottom to top on creating a map and putting it into blue print, also covering ssmf of course. When I get it done, the map development wiki page is getting an extreme makeover (much like what happened with the Game development section).

Smoth/Flozi if you wanna help format this page, be my guest. I didn't know the stylings you were using for the lua pages and I didn't feel like going and looking, so I just used sections and bolding. I figured you guys could go through and make it pretty after the fact.

Edit: Oh fuck me. The codeblocks are what is being used to make ze pretty green text stuffs? Ok I can do that.

Edit2: Prettyified. Will finish it tomorrow. Kinda tired of typing atm.
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knorke
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2012-03-05

Post by knorke » 07 Mar 2012, 09:21

Forboding Angel wrote:Creating_a_map_using_blueprint
make sure not to repeat the same mistakes: http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... 1&start=56

There are various things that have nothing to do with blueprint thingy and much of it is already on wiki:
-pixelsizes of metal/texture/.. maps
-mapconv commandline explaination
-listing of mapping software

Also imo http://springfiles.com/spring/tools/mapping-tools is a bad idea, why include programs that your tutorial names "Depreciated, no longer useful"?
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Forboding Angel
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2012-03-05

Post by Forboding Angel » 07 Mar 2012, 10:33

Knorke, I am writing this so I can delete all the other old outdated shit.

I want the mapping stuff in one spot. It's worth nothing that once it's done I think this page should be broken up into it's sections forming different pages (maybe someone knows a way to do that so that it isn't unweildy?).

Plus knorke, I know that if I wrote it, it isn't incorrect or retarded information. I do not feel like proofreading 100 different wiki articles written by morons who have never made a map hoping to glean some useful information when I can just rewrite it myself in 1/4th of the time and unlink the outdated info.

Knorke, those tools are useful if you are remaking an old smf map, but if you like I will remove all but the bare necessities (I don't see why though, it's not as though those tools are causing any harm).

Moderator: Split these map wiki posts into a new thread?
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abma
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2012-03-05

Post by abma » 07 Mar 2012, 13:09

this reminds me, that we need to improve the guidelines for the wiki a bit...
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Pxtl
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2012-03-05

Post by Pxtl » 07 Mar 2012, 16:49

Perhaps we should be looking at something like the old ModelBase bot for the wiki? Right now the "active topics" listing on the SpringRTS.com forum is the starting point for most discussion... connecting the wiki to the forum would help bring the spotlight into the wiki.

That is, every day have a "daily edits" summary posted to the Wiki forum, and autocreate a posting on the Wiki forum every time a new page is created on the Wiki. This could be implemented by a bot.

Clumsy, I know, but it might get people feeding the wiki.
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smoth
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2012-03-05

Post by smoth » 07 Mar 2012, 17:16

nope. people committing to the wiki will only happen when people stop being lazy. This community is filled with layabouts!
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Johannes
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2012-03-05

Post by Johannes » 07 Mar 2012, 19:44

abma wrote:the current map tutorials are bad for new mappers, because all tutorials are outdated / don't work and nobody (expect the thread creator) can fix it. thats awful! we lock out new possible mappers because of this!
And why wouldn't maps made with the old tutorials work?
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Forboding Angel
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2012-03-05

Post by Forboding Angel » 07 Mar 2012, 19:49

Its a matter of doing it rite vs doing it rong. All the old tuts show how to do it rong, including my own.
Last edited by Forboding Angel on 07 Mar 2012, 21:59, edited 1 time in total.
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smoth
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2012-03-05

Post by smoth » 07 Mar 2012, 20:04

Confirmed, I WAS THERE etc.
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Forboding Angel
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2012-03-05

Post by Forboding Angel » 07 Mar 2012, 22:03

Smoth, I'm pretty much done with it. Of course other things need to happen like documenting tags in mapinfo, etc.

But I want to split this into pages, and link those pages from the map development landing page. However, I don't the correct way to structure it. This is not a tutorial, it's simply how to do it. I only called it a tutorial because I needed to put it on a new page, but it was always my intention to split it up into it's respective parts.

If you and Flozi could find some time to give me a hand it would be muchly appreciated. Also, atm all the pictures in it are linked from the evo server, which while it isn't going anywhere, it still would be best to have the pictures actually uploaded to the wiki properly.

Sidenote, new editor makes adding new content a LOT easier.
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Johannes
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2012-03-05

Post by Johannes » 08 Mar 2012, 19:53

Forboding Angel wrote:Its a matter of doing it rite vs doing it rong. All the old tuts show how to do it rong, including my own.
Could you elaborate a bit what are the benefits of using this blueprint thingy, opposed to just making an .smd like I always have?
No need to mention featureplacer and SSMF, since I know about those already.


Ie. why should someone like me who's familiar with the old methods go and learn the new stuff, when I can create maps with old systems perfectly fine.
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smoth
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2012-03-05

Post by smoth » 08 Mar 2012, 19:57

Image
no advantage, nothing to see here.
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knorke
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2012-03-05

Post by knorke » 09 Mar 2012, 00:46

That is, every day have a "daily edits" summary posted to the Wiki forum
:arrow: http://springrts.com/wiki/Special:RecentChanges
it was always my intention to split it up into it's respective parts.
imo do it right from start...
and finish one topic (like mapinfo.lua or placing features) before starting many things.
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Forboding Angel
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2012-03-05

Post by Forboding Angel » 09 Mar 2012, 03:01

Knorke, I did all of that in one night. Why don't you stop complaining, and help piece it out? Jesus, if you had bothered to actually do anything it would be done by now, ffs.

Johannes, map options, better rendering, etc etc. Not to mention that people making maps using old methods is the problem. Old and busted <-> new hotness.

Also, in blueprint, everything is in lua. The only thing you can't change by editing a lua file is the heightmap, the texture of the map, the metal placement map, and how grass is distributed. Anything else can be done after compilation via the included luaz.
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gajop
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2012-03-05

Post by gajop » 09 Mar 2012, 17:00

Regarding Spring.Echo, could you make it so it uses savetable.lua's kind of printing for tables?
Makes debugging easier not having to think what type it is, as Spring.Echo doesn't really show anything useful for tables.
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Pxtl
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2012-03-05

Post by Pxtl » 09 Mar 2012, 17:04

knorke wrote:
That is, every day have a "daily edits" summary posted to the Wiki forum
:arrow: http://springrts.com/wiki/Special:RecentChanges
Oh, I know that recentchanges exists... but if nobody checks it, does it matter? The Forum is the hub of activity.
Last edited by Pxtl on 09 Mar 2012, 17:05, edited 2 times in total.
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smoth
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2012-03-05

Post by smoth » 09 Mar 2012, 17:04

gajop wrote:Regarding Spring.Echo, could you make it so it uses savetable.lua's kind of printing for tables?
Makes debugging easier not having to think what type it is, as Spring.Echo doesn't really show anything useful for tables.
write your own function?
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knorke
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2012-03-05

Post by knorke » 20 Mar 2012, 06:43

Forboding Angel wrote:But I want to split this into pages, and link those pages from the map development landing page.
Do you still plan to do this?
imo http://springrts.com/wiki/Map_development is now the same mess as before, in parts it is worse.
eg before your edits it said about the MapConv tool:
Map converter program, compiles maps.
and linked to the MapConv page for more.

Now the description is "MapConv is a command line program that is generally started via a batch file ."
Not only does this description tell nothing (not even the purpose of the too) but a lot that belongs on [[MapConv]] has spilled into [[Map_development]]
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