Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-03 - Page 6

Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-03

Minutes of the meetings between Spring developers are archived here.
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-03

Post by Forboding Angel » 08 Oct 2010, 03:30

Argh wrote:...we're second-class citizens in this dystopia, instead of partners who you want to succeed because it means you succeed. It's unhealthy, and it's one of the reasons why things have gotten messed up.
I feel as though it is this way much of the time. That said, it's not like Tobi and others aren't nice guys. JK still drives me crazy with the way he answers stuff, but he's got a super full plate and not enough time to explain shit to everyone. Meh, I digress.
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Argh
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-03

Post by Argh » 08 Oct 2010, 03:32

It's not like their evil. It's just that the system's been set up with perverse incentives that create certain problems. It's been this way a long, long time SpliFF, which is why all the crazy retards like myself are not just crazy, but fairly bitter.

Meh, I wish I was a doctoral student in group psychology or economics, this place would be fascinating ;)

And SpliFF, tell ya what: that kind of comment is why I am now 100% sure that when I get done with P.U.R.E., I'm moving to Unity. I think that was the decision-maker there. Based on what I saw from being gone six months, I am less than sanguine about your prospects if only a couple of others follow suit.

And of course, you guys could have set up financial incentives or other things to change the dynamic.

Again, this is all old stuff, not a new idea. We talked about it, it got turned into community free-fire (the person who brought it up was Caydr, go figure).

And when I announced what I was doing with P.U.R.E., I specifically said if it was successful, I'd be able to contribute to the community financially. Result: ...

...fuck it, I don't even want to talk about this. It's not even worth bothering any more. Forget about it, I never bothered talking about it, I will never bother again.
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SpliFF
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-03

Post by SpliFF » 08 Oct 2010, 03:54

Argh wrote:And SpliFF, tell ya what: that kind of comment is why I am now 100% sure that when I get done with P.U.R.E., I'm moving to Unity.
Yeah good luck with that. It won't change the fact you're in over your head and apparently unwilling to do anything about it. Your whole "us" vs. "them" attitude isn't going to change is it? See how long the Unity developers will tolerate your "I'm an expert on programming theory but I can't program" approach to problem solving.
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Argh
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-03

Post by Argh » 08 Oct 2010, 04:15

I'm pretty sure I'll be OK, Unity's pretty much aimed at people like me. JavaScript, Boo, shaders, model loaders, lighting systems, examples and detailed tutorials, prebuilts and content packs. Collisions, physics, particle systems. Gosh, I'll just die, having to deal with that. All I have to do is make gameplay? I won't have to both fight an engine and the people working on it? That will be relaxing ;)

If I built a Warband mod using a proprietary scripting system that included rewriting their economy, their strategic AI, their tactical AI, cannon simulations, firearms, custom level designs, coding a character generation system and a bloody million other things, not to mention either creating or prepping hundreds of pieces of content, then supported it and achieved ridiculous success, a private sub-forum on their official website with moderator rights, etc... I am pretty sure that I will be fine ;)

Anyhow, it's good to end with a laugh. I will now go back to my work and let the grownups do things that don't concern wee people :-)

<exits left>

<by all means, start the traditional flaming>
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oksnoop2
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-03

Post by oksnoop2 » 08 Oct 2010, 04:41

crap, i'm a bit too late it seems, argh if you read this again. Perhaps you could work on this http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23184

It seems geared to be exactly what were talking about.
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SirMaverick
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-03

Post by SirMaverick » 08 Oct 2010, 05:43

SpliFF wrote:[...]
If you don't like the way Spring is developed then fork it.
[...]
If you really want to make a difference here it's time you get out of your comfort zone and start learning C++ and the Spring source. In the long run you'll be less frustrated and less frustrating to others. The wiki will always lag behind the source code so understanding the source is critical to being productive instead of banging your head against walls.
Ack.
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KDR_11k
Game Developer
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-03

Post by KDR_11k » 08 Oct 2010, 08:30

It's pointless to attract new users "to Spring" anyway. What does a user want with an engine? Most are attracted to "TA Spring" which is a codename for *A. They come for the games and get Spring to access them, not the other way around. The games need their own websites.
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AF
AI Developer
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-03

Post by AF » 08 Oct 2010, 13:31

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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-03

Post by zwzsg » 08 Oct 2010, 14:46

Argh wrote:I'm moving to Unity
Good ridd... good luck!

Don't forget to drop us a word, a link, and gloating once you've finished your RTS on the Unity engine.
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smoth
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-03

Post by smoth » 08 Oct 2010, 14:47

so what exactly are these two modes zerver? is the single core mode there so we can buy time until we convert our lua to work with the dual core stuff?
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Johannes
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-03

Post by Johannes » 08 Oct 2010, 15:01

KDR_11k wrote:It's pointless to attract new users "to Spring" anyway. What does a user want with an engine?
He makes a game of course!
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hoijui
Former Engine Dev
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-03

Post by hoijui » 08 Oct 2010, 16:15

zerver has one approach, jk has an other.
for now, we do not know which one will be used, and it is still months till a release of spring that will have one of the two. so... i do not think it makes sense to adjust any lua scripts big time yet, except for zerver and jk maybe, to check and see if their stuff works as expected.
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zerver
Spring Developer
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-03

Post by zerver » 08 Oct 2010, 18:39

hoijui wrote:zerver has one approach, jk has an other.
Actually, since I now implemented both the batching and _G-->SYNCED copying, our approach is basically the same. The only difference is jK wants to put the actual splitting code in the synced handle.
smoth wrote:so what exactly are these two modes zerver? is the single core mode there so we can buy time until we convert our lua to work with the dual core stuff?
Exactly. Actually I've added a fourth mode in my last version. Higher number --> more work to make the code compatible.

Code: Select all

	/**
	 * LuaHandle threading mode for Spring MT:
	 * 0: Use 'luaThreadingModel' setting from modInfo (default)
	 * 1: Single Lua state (fully backwards compatible but slow)
	 * 2: Dual Lua states for synced, synced/unsynced gadget communication via EXPORT table and SendToUnsynced, 
	 * 3: Dual Lua states for synced, synced/unsynced gadget communication via SendToUnsynced only
	 * 4: Dual Lua states for all, all synced/unsynced communication (widgets included) via SendToUnsynced only
	 */
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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-03

Post by zwzsg » 08 Oct 2010, 19:16

What's the difference between 3 and 4? I mean, widget have no synced part...
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aegis
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-03

Post by aegis » 08 Oct 2010, 19:32

widgets can access synced data.
to truly split synced from unsynced, widgets would have an unsynced render/input state and a synced data access state (like gadgets)
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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-03

Post by zwzsg » 08 Oct 2010, 19:42

Oh right, forgot the reading of synced data. :oops:
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