Shard config for NOTA

Shard config for NOTA

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yuritch
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Shard config for NOTA

Post by yuritch » 29 Sep 2012, 21:08

Here is a config for Shard that plays NOTA. This bot can even beat N.O.E. from 1.69 (not 100% guaranteed).

Limitations:
- only plays CORE. If started as ARM, will do absolutely nothing.
- only makes ground units (but can defend against air to some extent)
- knows nothing about tactics, is more concerned with expansion and just sends streams of units to enemy base

Installation:
unzip into <Spring folder>\AI\Skirmish\Shard\dev\ai.

Usage: create a single-player game (or host a battle), add "Shard dev" as a bot, make sure it is set to CORE (side 2).

Tested with Spring 91.0, Shard dev (comes with that engine version) and NOTA 1.69.
Attachments
Shard_NOTA.zip
Bot files
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PepeAmpere
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Re: Shard config for NOTA 1.69

Post by PepeAmpere » 01 Oct 2012, 19:59

Great! Some AI to compete with :lol: I like it. Its motivation to enhance NOE.

Yes, it rules in game. From files you sent it seems it uses some advanced (and finished) tools. It defeats current NOE.
  • [+] good territory expansion (NOE have still silly old one) => Shard have good eco
    [+] making strongpoints on the map, on conquered territory
    [0] i think Shard is comparable in battle with NOE, maybe a bit worse then NOE in big groups fight, but advanced raids procedures
some other info you mentioned, i have only these few observations from one played game

BTW: later we can make some comparsion standards for comparing AIs.
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yuritch
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Re: Shard config for NOTA 1.69

Post by yuritch » 01 Oct 2012, 20:47

One of the key ideas behind my AI is that it should only build something if it's needed. For example it won't make any AA unless enemy has air factories (same for antinukes, but I have yet to see a game that lasts long enough for nukes to appear). Energy buildings are only built if there is need for more power, storages are only made when resource storage is full, etc. Also in theory it should never have resource excess as additional factories will be made when res income is greater than res usage.

I'm working on some improvements now. Most important is AI shouldn't eat CPU in late game like crazy anymore (was capable of using more than 60% CPU after ~30 min game time).

Also now my AI can build hover platform if map has water to get to resources on islands (but detection of water maps is unreliable still). Hovers make good raiders, too.

Building placement is very bad atm, as you can see in any game. Defense placement is no better.
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yuritch
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Re: Shard config for NOTA 1.69

Post by yuritch » 01 Oct 2012, 22:36

New bot version. Builds hovers (when it thinks the map is suitable), should lag less.
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Shard_NOTA.zip
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yuritch
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Re: NOE AI - development, ideas, manual

Post by yuritch » 03 Oct 2012, 19:35

From my own observation of Shard vs NOE battles, NOE often fails to win because it starts to retreat its massive bot force (Hammers/Thuds) just short of wiping Shard's base out.

This then allows Shard to defeat that force with constant stream of units supported by base's long range weapon, and after that Shard's better economy just leaves no chance for NOE.

So, if NOE attacks were more decisive (as in no retreat while the force can still fight), it might have won more often.

(PepeAmpere moved this post to the right thread)
Last edited by PepeAmpere on 04 Oct 2012, 01:53, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: info about moving
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PepeAmpere
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Re: Shard config for NOTA 1.69

Post by PepeAmpere » 04 Oct 2012, 01:58

NOE loose because of lot of reasons :). Simply, its much more unfinished then Shard. Shard have some tools prepared from previous development and only morph itself to be NOTA enemy. NOE is very young yet, some things are set only "to be set somehow", tools are not finished... BUT.. NOE wants revenge, so dont worry, you will see new NOE soon that kick the balls of Shard :twisted:.
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yuritch
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Re: Shard config for NOTA 1.69

Post by yuritch » 04 Oct 2012, 21:32

Another bot version.

- Now it really builds antinukes (wasn't before, but today was the first time I've seen NOE actually nuke my bot).
- Implemented anti-stuck checks for construction units. Might interfere with very long build projects, but should prevent con units 'falling out' of AI control and doing nothing.
Attachments
Shard_NOTA.zip
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PepeAmpere
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Re: Shard config for NOTA 1.69

Post by PepeAmpere » 06 Oct 2012, 03:10

NOE STRIKES BACK :mrgreen:

Yesterdays version that kill your bot on test ValleyMarines_v2 map in all 2v2+ matches and win in more then half of cases of 1v1 matches of NOE ARM vs Shard AI or NOE CORE vs Shard AI (current NOE CORE is better i think).

for more info and mod file link (NOTA 1.70a) check NOE dev thread (http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... 26#p529726)

Generaly i added only one thing, most of improvment was done by fixing bugs and accessing prepared advanced tools (which was forgotten in previouse version and still old simple test procedures were used)
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yuritch
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Re: Shard config for NOTA 1.69

Post by yuritch » 07 Oct 2012, 18:39

Ok, so I fixed a few more things. In particular, now AI does not consider allied factories when counting if it has enough, so team play should improve. Should win in 2v2s more often :)
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Shard_NOTA.zip
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PepeAmpere
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Re: Shard config for NOTA 1.69

Post by PepeAmpere » 11 Oct 2012, 22:22

NOE to SHARD: I'm your father!

Another response on Shard imperial thoughts - more on NOE dev forum
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yuritch
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Re: Shard config for NOTA 1.69

Post by yuritch » 13 Oct 2012, 16:50

New version:

- base building placement changed so that units are less likely to get stuck
- dangerous buildings (mmakers, fusions) are placed away from the others
- raiders are more likely to go after lone mexes far from main base
- fixed AI crash after having it's base nuked (which should not happen in any case, but it sometimes does :D )
Attachments
Shard_NOTA.zip
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yuritch
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Re: Shard config for NOTA 1.69

Post by yuritch » 27 Oct 2012, 12:52

New version:

- now supports ARM as well as CORE
- slightly changed raider force composition
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Shard_NOTA.7z
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PepeAmpere
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Re: Shard config for NOTA 1.69

Post by PepeAmpere » 28 Oct 2012, 14:08

Ok, I made some comparation:

Map: Valles_Marineris_v2

1v1 Players
  • last Shard Arm (S-A)
  • last Shard Core (S-C)
  • N.O.E. NOTA 1.71 Arm (N-A)
  • N.O.E. NOTA 1.71 Core (N-C)
........... S-A ........ S-C ........... N-A ........... N-C.........Points
S-A...... --- ....... 0 (42:28) 1 (54:43) ... 0 (20:24) .... 1
S-C... 1 (42:28) ..... --- .... 1 (42:18) ... 0 (38:29) .... 2
N-A... 0 (54:43) 0 (42:18) ...... --- ....... 1 (30:00) .... 1
N-C... 1 (20:24) 1 (38:29) 0 (30:00) ......... --- ......... 2

2v2 Match
+1 point to winning team members

S-A + S-C vs N-A + N-C

N win (38:07)

Result
  • S-A - 1 point
  • S-C - 2 point
  • N-A - 2 point
  • N-C - 3 points
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yuritch
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Re: Shard config for NOTA 1.69

Post by yuritch » 29 Oct 2012, 08:18

From my own observations, my bot is weaker as ARM compared to CORE. Not sure what's the reason exactly.

I'm making some changes now, maybe next version will be stronger :)

I'd like to use some Bulldogs, but if I enable them, the bot will cheat because somehow prerequisites don't work for AIs - they can build Bulldogs even without T2 vehicle tower. Same for T2 bot tower.

Is it possible to make prerequisites work properly for AIs? (it's quite hard to check if the bot has a complete T2 tower from Shard code right now because I can't access build progress from there).
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PepeAmpere
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Re: Shard config for NOTA 1.69

Post by PepeAmpere » 29 Oct 2012, 20:30

yuritch wrote: I'd like to use some Bulldogs, but if I enable them, the bot will cheat because somehow prerequisites don't work for AIs - they can build Bulldogs even without T2 vehicle tower. Same for T2 bot tower.
I know about that bug. I found it when testing E323AI for NOTA. But its not possible to fix it by some easy way. All teching is currently done by unit icon click prohibition (button in factory is innactive). AIs not using any buttons, they use spring commands, so they are not interested in any buttons :). Im not sure if it is possible to change buildoptions in game... and if yes, it would need completly rework the script (= do it only for AIs, not for players, do it everytime given tech2 is made/killed).
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yuritch
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Re: Shard config for NOTA 1.69

Post by yuritch » 29 Oct 2012, 21:56

New build:
- fixed some problems with building placement
- changed raid target selection, now prefers lone unarmed units (mexes far from base)

Also I have an idea why ARM bot is weaker. ARM starting unit has a construction animation which CORE base lacks, so CORE takes less time to switch to next building, which is very important during early game. Observe a game with 2 Shard bots and see for yourself that first CORE factory is built faster, so the bot starts to grab metal earlier.
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Shard_NOTA.zip
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PepeAmpere
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Re: Shard config for NOTA 1.69

Post by PepeAmpere » 30 Oct 2012, 00:16

yuritch wrote:Also I have an idea why ARM bot is weaker. ARM starting unit has a construction animation which CORE base lacks, so CORE takes less time to switch to next building, which is very important during early game. Observe a game with 2 Shard bots and see for yourself that first CORE factory is built faster, so the bot starts to grab metal earlier.
Yep, thats known fact, but i think there many other more important factors :). 2 seconds doesnt win the whole game ;). Units of both sides arent equivalent in all stats, CORE have more hp but less speed, etc, etc.. so this is only cosmetic thing ;).
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yuritch
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Re: Shard config for NOTA 1.69

Post by yuritch » 30 Oct 2012, 22:37

Here is a new version:
- fixed ARM base abandoning T2 tower construction if it took too long;
- changed defense placement a bit;
- hover plants produce more attack units and less raiders;
- number of con units is now dependent on metal spots amount;
- if the bot decides it's winning (it's ally team controls 50% or more of mex spots), it will build slightly more artillery (for enemy base siege), CORE will also make Reapers in that case, ARM will build Merl.

This build still loses to NOE in team games btw.
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Shard_NOTA.zip
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yuritch
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Re: Shard config for NOTA 1.69

Post by yuritch » 31 Oct 2012, 22:18

Yet another version:

- bases should get invalid build orders (which result in long pauses) less often
- mobile cons should not get stuck on geo build orders on maps which don't have geos anymore
- added min. energy requirements to fusions so bot won't go fusion before making enough basic energy
- added AA missile towers to base defense (since NOE seems to prefer light bombers now)
- changed raid target selection again
- increased probability that an antinuke will be built if enemy nukes are detected

My bot still can't win over NOE as often as in 1.70, but fights better in 1v1 at least.
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Shard_NOTA.zip
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PepeAmpere
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Re: Shard config for NOTA 1.69

Post by PepeAmpere » 09 Nov 2012, 15:36

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