NanoBlobs 0.64 - Page 4

NanoBlobs 0.64

WolfeGames and projects headed by Argh.

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Mecha Sonic
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Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 04:01

Post by Mecha Sonic » 26 Nov 2006, 03:52

This version doesn't work for me =( While it's loading I get a Missing Content error that says Unknown Class: CSphereParticleSpawner. I guess my comp is too old?
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Maelstrom
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Post by Maelstrom » 26 Nov 2006, 05:00

No, i think you need the new dev version of Spring. Go to the Development section, theres a link in there somewhere.
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Argh
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Post by Argh » 26 Nov 2006, 06:03

@Hunter0000:

I cannot do much about the black-lines bug. This isn't happening on my machine anymore, and it has to do with the low-level rendering code that handles bitmaps in Spring, which has a number of problems that I am aware of, but am not nearly a good enough coder to address.

The Square's FX might need to be slowed down some more, to make it feel a bit more solid. I don't want to add more particles to it if I can help it- every one has a cost, and it adds up rather quickly.

@Everybody... yeah, you need to d/l and install the Release Candidate of Spring, if you want to play the mod.
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FoeOfTheBee
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Post by FoeOfTheBee » 26 Nov 2006, 06:26

The error I get is:
Could not load texture from file bitmaps/explofade.tga
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Argh
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Post by Argh » 26 Nov 2006, 06:29

That's a non-crashing bug. Explofade is used for some default explosions, and I don't use it in Spring anywhere. It's probably been hard-coded somewhere in Spring... shouldn't be. I'll add that to the buglist...
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FoeOfTheBee
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Post by FoeOfTheBee » 26 Nov 2006, 06:40

Argh wrote:That's a non-crashing bug. Explofade is used for some default explosions, and I don't use it in Spring anywhere. It's probably been hard-coded somewhere in Spring... shouldn't be. I'll add that to the buglist...
For me it does crash. Quits right after the Nanoblobz splash screen shows up.
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FoeOfTheBee
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Post by FoeOfTheBee » 26 Nov 2006, 06:44

FoeOfTheBee wrote:The error I get is:
Could not load texture from file bitmaps/explofade.tga
I tossed a tga named explofade into the archive, and now I get the same error but with flare.tga
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FoeOfTheBee
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Post by FoeOfTheBee » 26 Nov 2006, 06:52

Did a clean reinstall and it works, so it was probably my fault, somehow.
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Argh
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Post by Argh » 26 Nov 2006, 06:58

I was gonna say... I certainly saw no crash bugs with a clean install of the Release Candidate build...
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ZellSF
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Post by ZellSF » 26 Nov 2006, 07:45

Great to see a mod that doesn't use the TA nano building animation, that's the thing that usually reminds me most that mods are just mods :P
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FoeOfTheBee
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Post by FoeOfTheBee » 26 Nov 2006, 08:18

ZellSF wrote:Great to see a mod that doesn't use the TA nano building animation, that's the thing that usually reminds me most that mods are just mods :P
That glow animation is very nice. The lord looks quite spooky when he's building. Should it still be called nanoblobz now, or did the nano come from something else?
Last edited by FoeOfTheBee on 26 Nov 2006, 08:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Maelstrom
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Post by Maelstrom » 26 Nov 2006, 08:48

Ok ive tested it out, and the new effects are not as draining as i thought. Its looking good. But one question, how do you stop wolfs? Spires and Tris seem to do alright, but you need millions of them to stop a decent swarm of wolfs.
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Argh
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Post by Argh » 26 Nov 2006, 10:10

Tried Springers or Holders yet? Heh.
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KDR_11k
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Post by KDR_11k » 26 Nov 2006, 11:18

Hm, since Nanoblobz will be the "official" mod of Spring (or at least ship with it), shouldn't it include a config file for the AI that ships with Spring (AAI)?

Also the smoke pillar of the nuke blast survives longer than the top cloud, that looks kinda funny. The pillar should fade before the top part. Some of the explosion effects (for stuff like the Square Rook) have a "shockwave" that survives too long as well (should fade out by the time it turns grey).

And BTW, what does the green range ring on the autofac mean?
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rattle
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Post by rattle » 26 Nov 2006, 12:02

I think AAI doesn't run well because it can't handle units producing other units at all so it has to rely on autofacs.
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Argh
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Post by Argh » 26 Nov 2006, 12:40

@KDR_11k:

AAI doesn't handle anything that isn't just OTA in disguise without serious problems. When it does, I will be happy to work with it.

This all dates back to the massive back-and-forth about AI designer priorities, where to be frank, I was rather harsh about the overly-optimistic expectations everybody had about what AIs were going to actually be able to do well (this argument was what led me to create NanoBlobs in the first place- as a bona-fide game design that had little in common with OTA but was still compatible with Spring), and I don't think Submarine has ever gotten over me getting in his face about how "learning" and a real-time AI aren't exactly compatible propositions. He's basically coded AAI to play a good game of OTA, and abandoned the more universal premise he started with, which is too bad, because I hoped he'd provide the other AI developers with a control group and research branch, with KAI and other very specific projects on the other hand. It hasn't turned out that way, but such was my thought when I pursued that line of argument in the first place- so much for my deep understanding of human orneriness :P

That's all I have to say about that- I've asked Submarine when he's going to make it a priority to support those "other" game categories that keep emerging, and have never received any indication that it was ever going to happen :P Hence I spend what little time I dedicate to AI integration with NTAI, which is much more flexible, and will probably take a good look at CSAI when I have free time for NB development again in a few months.

As for the smoke pillar... well, my choices there aren't good. If I make it fade out earlier, then it might look funny at the base during the final series. Dunno. As for the other stuff, when it fades out is entirely arbitrary, but there is a data load involved, and I'm somewhat chary of loading up a lot more into single FX for sheer perfectionism's sake. That said, everybody seems to agree that this is a flaw in the FX's presentation, so I should probably fix that.

As for the green range ring, I'd imagine it's the sight radius. It certainly doesn't have anything else that has a range, that I'm aware of.
Last edited by Argh on 26 Nov 2006, 12:50, edited 1 time in total.
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1v0ry_k1ng
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Post by 1v0ry_k1ng » 26 Nov 2006, 12:49

AAI can handle SWTA and the old EE.
Playing nanoblobs on full graphics gives a thought provoking insight to what Its like to take E's then watch a film on fast foward while wearing 3D glasses
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Argh
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Post by Argh » 26 Nov 2006, 12:51

SWTA and the old EE are both basically OTA in disguise. Their economic underpinnings are the same- Solar, Mex, Upgrade Mex, static defenses, factories. An AI should not play NB that way! It should play it exponentially along a diminishing-returns curve, its builders should move with the swarms as it spawns them, and in theory pure micro of Sheep to generate perfect herds of spam should overwhelm any human opponent with sheer numbers. The whole point of the project was to devise a game design that AIs would actually have a real advantage at. I think it still has that element, although the wedge is a lot slimmer than it used to be.

AAI can't handle anything that screws around with the basic economic premises of OTA like NanoBlobs does, basically. And I have no idea how any AI designed to play OTA would have any chance of dealing with the subtleties of the mod now... at best, I expect something like NTAI, which will at least do what it's told to with reasonable levels of success.

At any rate, the minute that Submarine says that NanoBlobs won't cause an instant crash after the Lord is built(this still happens), and will actually work with Sheep properly, I will be happy to tweak a config. But I seriously doubt that it will even come close to the performance of NTAI, which has enough flex that I can actually make it play a proper opening sequence most of the time...
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MadRat
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Post by MadRat » 26 Nov 2006, 15:25

Foe, crashes at that point sound like AAI cache problems. When the AAI cache and log files get corrupt they do just that at the beginning of a game. Were you using AAI to test NanoBlobs?
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KDR_11k
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Post by KDR_11k » 26 Nov 2006, 16:38

Okay, I forgot that AAI can't handle units building each other... Too bad we can't get NTAI for the testing builds.
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