Would anyone slit their wrists if sniper shots were made visible? - Page 4

Would anyone slit their wrists if sniper shots were made visible?

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very_bad_soldier
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Re: Would anyone slit their wrists if sniper shots were made visible?

Post by very_bad_soldier » 19 Feb 2017, 01:24

Forboding Angel wrote: Fwiw, ppl should stop treating commits as though they are final. Any project goes through various changes and in order to test multiplayer, something has to be committed so the alpha server will see it.

There as been a lot of silly angst from people who apparently don't understand how versioning works.
...well that is not how versioning works actually. Let's imagine Microsoft putting lots of strange and broken stuff into something called Windows 11 and releasing that. And no, open source projects don't work that way either.
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Forboding Angel
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Re: Would anyone slit their wrists if sniper shots were made visible?

Post by Forboding Angel » 19 Feb 2017, 02:41

MasterBel2 wrote:Is it just me, or are sniper shots visible on the minimap even in BA 9.46?! I was playing it last night, and I started to see it happening…
Depends on the weapon type used I would imagine. I'll go look when I have a chance.
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klapmongool
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Re: Would anyone slit their wrists if sniper shots were made visible?

Post by klapmongool » 19 Feb 2017, 07:34

Forboding Angel wrote:
Forboding Angel wrote: It is visible, but it is the terribly obvious either. If you weren't watching it would be easy enough to miss, but at least there is some visual feedback when your base randomly starts exploding.
Perhaps you should go look at it in the alpha test host. Additionally, by your comment, you didn't read the thread, because we covered that at length already.
I only read the first page before posting that. Now I read the other posts as well. I feel for the players because you are not listening to them. I must admit this is a though task considering the divide in players and DSD players.

I don't think you should apply your game design philosophy to BA. That might have worked well for your own game. That was a different game though. I don't get why you confuse game complexity, which is a big plus for many (former)BA players, with newbie-unfriendliness. These are two different things.
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Forboding Angel
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Re: Would anyone slit their wrists if sniper shots were made visible?

Post by Forboding Angel » 19 Feb 2017, 09:40

@klap, did you go look at it ingame (no, I know you didn't, because if you had you would have realized that this is much ado about nothing)? And the people complaining have not been listening to me, nor have they bothered to look either. I posed technical reasons why relying on sound was folly.
very_bad_soldier wrote:...well that is not how versioning works actually. Let's imagine Microsoft putting lots of strange and broken stuff into something called Windows 11 and releasing that. And no, open source projects don't work that way either.
I have never once released a BA version. You might be thinking of Floris who released stable BA versions in an unfortunate attempt to get people to do some testing when things where nowhere near being finished.

Additionally, VBS, you knew damn well that what I meant was that simply because a change is committed, that does not mean that whatever was changed is now impervious to future changes.

--

The alpha test host is there. If you refuse to go to it and have a look for yourself, then your opinion is based upon speculation and therefore unreliable.
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tzaeru
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Re: Would anyone slit their wrists if sniper shots were made visible?

Post by tzaeru » 19 Feb 2017, 14:07

I played some on the alphatest and noticed that not only does the visual show the direction where the shot came from, you actually see exactly where the visual starts and can pinpoint the pixel accurate position of the sniper with but a glance. Even if they are outside your LOS.

In my opinion, this mostly strips much of the relevancy of stealth capacity of snipers. It's good to have an indication that a sniper did indeed fire at your unit, but couldn't there really be any other means to do it? Could there be a small blue flash on the unit as it explodes or would that too be easily missed or not understood as meaning anything by newbies?
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qray
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Re: Would anyone slit their wrists if sniper shots were made visible?

Post by qray » 19 Feb 2017, 14:13

Why did you ask in the first place, Forbs?
All I get from this thread is, that you have an idea, the majority thinks it's not good and you do it anyway. Lesson I take home: probably it doesn't make sense to discuss with Forbs.

Nevertheless...
Forboding Angel wrote:...people complaining have not been listening to me, nor have they bothered to look either. I posed technical reasons why relying on sound was folly.
Reads a bit like: nobody else has a clue but me. Did it never occurred to you that people might be listening and nevertheless have a different opinion?
Forboding Angel wrote:...a firing sound in many cases can sound more or less the same as an explosion, as a result "Make the sound louder" provides even less input for the receiving end to process...
Forboding Angel wrote:It is not only possible, but likely for sniper shot sounds to be culled due to the amount of concurrent sounds the player has allowed in springsettings
Forboding Angel wrote:It's still a very bad solution though.
Saying "it is a bad solution" is not a real argument to me. Com explosion has a special sound. I can't remember a single game where I missed this since it was culled. And the com explosion sound is very obvious and every player immediately knows what happened.
So why again would this be a bad solution?
Floris wrote:Also the fact that a lot of people disable sound because on its horrendous quality
Where does this statistic come from? I don't know a single player who turns off sound. Rather I know players that ranted a lot when due to a technical problem their sound wasn't working, since the game gets much harder to play, if audible feedback is missing.
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Floris
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Re: Would anyone slit their wrists if sniper shots were made visible?

Post by Floris » 19 Feb 2017, 14:44

It seems (the general consensus) that a projectile removes the purpose of a sniper too much so I guess we'll just colorize the explosion for sniper hits and remove the projectile.

I play with sound of and I have heard a lot of other people also do this. (a guess people in bigger teamgames are more likely to turn it off aswell)
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Silentwings
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Re: Would anyone slit their wrists if sniper shots were made visible?

Post by Silentwings » 19 Feb 2017, 18:16

I don't know a single player who turns off sound.
I (admittedly, at this point, a mostly former player) turn off sound. Occasionally my commander explodes but nothing else goes wrong.
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albator
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Re: Would anyone slit their wrists if sniper shots were made visible?

Post by albator » 19 Feb 2017, 19:25

Sound is always off for me as well, like most spring player who like music.

Maybe that was a sarcastic comment ?
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qray
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Re: Would anyone slit their wrists if sniper shots were made visible?

Post by qray » 19 Feb 2017, 19:43

albator wrote:Maybe that was a sarcastic comment ?
No, I wasn't sarcastic. I am actually surprised that apparently quite a few players turn off sound :shock:

I once had no sound for a short while after am OS update, and I found it much harder to keep the overview and noticed quite some things much later than with sound on. Not only com being attacked, which is maybe a smaller problem since when I put the com at the front-line my attention is also focused there. With sound you can notice things also at places, where you can't see or your attention isn't at that moment - like certain weapons starting firing etc. and attacks/problems at your team mate front-line..
Same I heard from fellow players who had problems with sound at one time or another (linux can happen do be a bitch there :wink:).

So this actually is news for me.
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klapmongool
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Re: Would anyone slit their wrists if sniper shots were made visible?

Post by klapmongool » 21 Feb 2017, 06:44

Forboding Angel wrote:@klap, did you go look at it ingame (no, I know you didn't, because if you had you would have realized that this is much ado about nothing)? And the people complaining have not been listening to me, nor have they bothered to look either. I posed technical reasons why relying on sound was folly.
very_bad_soldier wrote:...well that is not how versioning works actually. Let's imagine Microsoft putting lots of strange and broken stuff into something called Windows 11 and releasing that. And no, open source projects don't work that way either.
I have never once released a BA version. You might be thinking of Floris who released stable BA versions in an unfortunate attempt to get people to do some testing when things where nowhere near being finished.

Additionally, VBS, you knew damn well that what I meant was that simply because a change is committed, that does not mean that whatever was changed is now impervious to future changes.

--

The alpha test host is there. If you refuse to go to it and have a look for yourself, then your opinion is based upon speculation and therefore unreliable.

I didn't test in the alpha host because I wasn't commenting on the actual change. I did test it now, ran a host myself. The blue line indicates clearly where the sniper is in case the player missed the muzzle flash from the sniper. It gives away the position of a unit that has the role of being an invisible, yet vulnerable, killer. I think it would be better to not implement these changes. I would argue for more audiovisual(that includes visual...) cues for the impact of the sniper weapon.

For the record: I do play with sounds. It makes determining why your units are blowing up easier.
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Floris
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Re: Would anyone slit their wrists if sniper shots were made visible?

Post by Floris » 21 Feb 2017, 11:49

...the sniper projectile was removed yesterday. The hit explosion has been given a red color instead
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