commander underwater can't shoot

commander underwater can't shoot

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jamerlan
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commander underwater can't shoot

Post by jamerlan »

Why commander can't shoot underwater? Could you please attach to him torpedo launcher? I think it should be possible to kill 1 lvl1 submarine with commander.
abma
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Re: commander underwater can't shoot

Post by abma »

you can capture the submarine...
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AF
AI Developer
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Re: commander underwater can't shoot

Post by AF »

You can reclaim it too
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jamerlan
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Re: commander underwater can't shoot

Post by jamerlan »

I like your jokes :-)) but seriously: why commander has a big power on land and can't shoot at all underwater? I think that it should survive vs 1 submarine.
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knorke
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Re: commander underwater can't shoot

Post by knorke »

also needs anti air missile
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Johannes
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Re: commander underwater can't shoot

Post by Johannes »

Why is water not like ground?
zerver
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Re: commander underwater can't shoot

Post by zerver »

jamerlan wrote:I like your jokes :-)) but seriously: why commander has a big power on land and can't shoot at all underwater? I think that it should survive vs 1 submarine.
I don't think those were jokes... the comm is primarily a land unit, underwater it should be vulnerable imo.

Why does my comm not have a vulcan cannon and anti nuke?
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knorke
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Re: commander underwater can't shoot

Post by knorke »

zerver wrote:Why does my comm not have a vulcan cannon and anti nuke?
works for me?
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1v0ry_k1ng
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Re: commander underwater can't shoot

Post by 1v0ry_k1ng »

word
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Mav
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Re: commander underwater can't shoot

Post by Mav »

In all seriousness, the commander is a useful tool on land for supplementing your early forces. Due to the nature of BA starting economics, you only have enough metal to make a handful of units. If you choose rock when your enemy chooses paper, it can be a costly mistake in early game.

This is where the commander comes into play: they can balance your initial units. They are not all powerful, but for the first 5 minutes of gameplay they serve to be an all around riot/assault/scout unit until the gameplay starts to flesh out. After the first 5 minutes, the role of the commander is diminished as true unit vs. unit warfare begins to take place. This is why I like the idea of the mobile fighting commander - it is incredibly useful for assisting in early-game balance without being terribly overpowered later on.

Sea is the exact opposite: your commander in the sea is nearly useless. It can't fire, it is slower than everything, and doesn't help balance the starting economy, which is even MORE rock-paper-scissors than land combat. There are two aspects of this: the RPS style of sea combat and the much larger cost of sea units.

In land games the units (and defenses!) are cheap enough that if you chose the wrong unit at start, you can switch your lab's productions to meet your needs and you'll get the new unit type relatively quickly. In sea, units are expensive and economy starts slow. Pick the wrong unit at start, and it may be 3-4 minutes before you have enough metal to make a counter unit. As I mentioned, land defenses are also much cheaper. LLTs are used to quickly supplement your front if you see enemy rushing flash or scouts. Torpedo launchers are far too expensive to be a quick-plop solution like the LLT.

The commander needs some sort of ability to fire underwater. It doesn't have to be very powerful (much like the commander's arm laser is pretty weak) but it would allow your commander to better supplement your forces if your initial choice is wrong.

Sea is still very micro-intensive (you have to micro subs to make sure they are facing the right way! lol), provides no form of inexpensive defenses like LLT, is highly dependent on starting unit choice RPS, has expensive units that make it difficult to switch tactics if you find yourself on the wrong side of the RPS battle, and is usually fought 1v1 or 2v2. No wonder noobs are so hesitant to play sea! It's not only the most difficult type of BA gameplay, but if you screw up, don't expect reinforcements from your team!

Give the com a weak underwater weapon and I think early-game sea balance will be improved, while having almost no effect on late-game sea play, which I feel is adequate.
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jamerlan
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Re: commander underwater can't shoot

Post by jamerlan »

I am completely agree with Mav. I wanted to say the same, but my English is not so good.

Thank you, Mav!
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AF
AI Developer
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Re: commander underwater can't shoot

Post by AF »

TA based mods have always had super expensive sea, and it was easier in OTA on some maps to actually have sea warfare. Nowadays you have to win the first battle or you're utterly buggered ( assuming the most basic of competence on either side ). Simply getting your shipyard up first pretty much wins you the war and gives you control over the sea. It's expensive, slow, and the risks are massive.

An underwater commander weapon would help, but it would not make the problem go away.
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