Auto Swarm - Page 2

Auto Swarm

Discuss Lua based Spring scripts (LuaUI widgets, mission scripts, gaia scripts, mod-rules scripts, scripted keybindings, etc...)

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Niobium
Posts: 456
Joined: 07 Dec 2008, 02:35

Re: Auto Swarm

Post by Niobium »

CPU will be low, but issuing commands can lag the server. This widget is issuing 4 commands per unit per second, with many units and/or players using this, could be noticeable, 4 commands/sec/unit is extremely high relative to the number of commands a human would issue.
Google_Frog
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Re: Auto Swarm

Post by Google_Frog »

V1.1:
Added swarmee list, this controls the units that raiders will jink and circle around. Most games have some units with homing or very fast projectiles so jinking is a disadvantage as it takes longer to reach the enemy.
Google_Frog
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Re: Auto Swarm

Post by Google_Frog »

Forboding Angel wrote:Hey neato, lookin real good. Have you tried it with evo google? Since evo units shoot through each other I wonder if this is even needed. What do you think? My immediate response it to put it in the mod, but what do you think?
Go ahead but off the top of my head there aren't many units in evo that would benifit. You could also add autoskirm as I think there's a few units that could use it too.
Niobium wrote:CPU will be low, but issuing commands can lag the server. This widget is issuing 4 commands per unit per second, with many units and/or players using this, could be noticeable, 4 commands/sec/unit is extremely high relative to the number of commands a human would issue.
The updated version sends commands every 20 steps which is 2/3 of a second isn't it? Before it was every 15 steps. The units only get commands if the scenario is right so I don't see more than 100 units receiving commands in even the most extreme cases.
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Pendrokar
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Joined: 30 May 2007, 10:45

Re: Auto Swarm

Post by Pendrokar »

Google_Frog wrote:
Forboding Angel wrote:Hey neato, lookin real good. Have you tried it with evo google? Since evo units shoot through each other I wonder if this is even needed. What do you think? My immediate response it to put it in the mod, but what do you think?
Go ahead but off the top of my head there aren't many units in evo that would benifit. You could also add autoskirm as I think there's a few units that could use it too.
Let me guess. Most units use hitscan(Instant-hit) weapons?
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Wisse
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Joined: 10 Jul 2006, 17:50

Re: Auto Swarm

Post by Wisse »

reivanen wrote:This is absolutely fantastic!

Soon we don't have to command an army of retarded zombies, but actually play a STRATEGY game, where you can focus on strategy, and not be stuck walking hand-in-hand with every unit as they move about.

Anything that cuts out useless micro is for the win!...
See, I on the other hand like this game because of micro. I don't even get it how you can get busy with your "STRATEGY" in this kind of game when you rule out micro, please provide an example.
This is not chess. My idea of strategy here is how to build AND micro one or more groups of units to beat enemy.

I could probably cut my clicks/minute for about 30 if I used all unit controlling widgets available. That wouldn't improve my strategy tho. Just my efficiency. But improving efficiency of a player by using software tools looks like some level of hacking to me. And don't tell me everyone can get this. Only 10% of ppl know about it.

We need competitive mods (or mods with competitive "option") with locked features and pub mods for those who want to cook, eat, drink and shower during matches.
==Troy==
Posts: 376
Joined: 29 Oct 2008, 15:55

Re: Auto Swarm

Post by ==Troy== »

Wisse wrote:
reivanen wrote:This is absolutely fantastic!

Soon we don't have to command an army of retarded zombies, but actually play a STRATEGY game, where you can focus on strategy, and not be stuck walking hand-in-hand with every unit as they move about.

Anything that cuts out useless micro is for the win!...
See, I on the other hand like this game because of micro. I don't even get it how you can get busy with your "STRATEGY" in this kind of game when you rule out micro, please provide an example.
This is not chess. My idea of strategy here is how to build AND micro one or more groups of units to beat enemy.

I could probably cut my clicks/minute for about 30 if I used all unit controlling widgets available. That wouldn't improve my strategy tho. Just my efficiency. But improving efficiency of a player by using software tools looks like some level of hacking to me. And don't tell me everyone can get this. Only 10% of ppl know about it.

We need competitive mods (or mods with competitive "option") with locked features and pub mods for those who want to cook, eat, drink and shower during matches.

With current engine implementation you cant prevent them using the widget or write their own, if you will call it "cheat" you will reduce those 10% who know about it into 1% that know how to spoof the system that stops them from using it.
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Otherside
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Joined: 21 Feb 2006, 14:09

Re: Auto Swarm

Post by Otherside »

wisse's argument has little substance imo

If a Mod is micro intensive as is any little boost that is available to anyone is not a 'cheat'.

Most mods are micro intensive as is and aslong as skillfull micro is more rewarding than a set of auto widgets, imo there's little to no harm in people using them.

In the case of micro heavy games like SC, SC has a supply cap and you control a relatively smaller army than the stuff you can reach in some spring mods, so any helping handed is much appreciated. If a game has good depth and solid gameplay getting a bit of aid in micro isnt a bad thing.

if a game is just pure micro and copypasta BO's thats fail imo.
Regret
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Re: Auto Swarm

Post by Regret »

==Troy== wrote:With current engine implementation you cant prevent them using the widget
Wrong. You're new here, do a bit more research before spewing out bullshit.


Otherside wrote:wisse's argument has little substance
He offered a valid solution to this problem.

You on the other hand did this:
Otherside wrote:imo imo imo imo


Making a mod option to disable outside widgets is perfectly viable.
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ginekolog
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Joined: 27 Feb 2006, 13:49

Re: Auto Swarm

Post by ginekolog »

i tested this and will not use it as i dont like widget moving my units, especially when i have 1 weaseel selected and then it tries to make circles around enemy ... and llt mows him down
==Troy==
Posts: 376
Joined: 29 Oct 2008, 15:55

Re: Auto Swarm

Post by ==Troy== »

Regret wrote:
==Troy== wrote:With current engine implementation you cant prevent them using the widget
Wrong. You're new here, do a bit more research before spewing out bullshit.

Get some manners, and do some research as well. There arent even any md5 checks on the widgets, you just change the name, if that wont work, you just make new client, which is, with GPL, is as easy as pie.
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lurker
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Joined: 08 Jan 2007, 06:13

Re: Auto Swarm

Post by lurker »

Okay, vague terms, no need for you two to get upset. Yes, anything can be done with a recompile. Yes, you can otherwise block to a reasonable extent.

ginekolog, it doesn't take over units with move orders, and you could make it ignore attack orders too with a minute's tweak, so it only grabs Fight units. Is weasel even in the raiders list?
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Otherside
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Re: Auto Swarm

Post by Otherside »

Regret you havent given a valid arguement either.

Your just horribly biased/pissed off that someone beat you with morty spam and you think its because of the autoskirm widget (you would have died regardless of widget anyway)
Regret
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Re: Auto Swarm

Post by Regret »

Otherside wrote:Regret you havent given a valid arguement either.
Regret wrote:Making a mod option to disable outside widgets is perfectly viable.
Fact: Making a mod option to disable outside widgets is perfectly viable.
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Neddie
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Re: Auto Swarm

Post by Neddie »

You simply use a white-list of permitted scripts.

I was for some time the only real dissenting voice on automation in CA, I still believe that it reduces the depth of play and creates a form of dependence upon the widgets among many users - a dependence which is actually favorable for sustaining an exclusive CA playerbase. However, we can still do it better than the widget can. Yes, I'm in agreement with your desires Wisse but until a widget can do it better than I can I'm not going to exert myself in full protest. I can be right without beating somebody over it.

You're still working at a tactical level, Rei, you just have a task-automator. There are no real time models of strategy, to be honest. Google, SC is so dependent on micro because it is overplayed and in design quite simple - to differentiate play people had to break it down into manual task oversight, and by some unfortunate twist of fate this became prevalent.

Respect one another, or do not speak.
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
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Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43

Re: Auto Swarm

Post by Forboding Angel »

Pendrokar wrote:
Google_Frog wrote:
Forboding Angel wrote:Hey neato, lookin real good. Have you tried it with evo google? Since evo units shoot through each other I wonder if this is even needed. What do you think? My immediate response it to put it in the mod, but what do you think?
Go ahead but off the top of my head there aren't many units in evo that would benifit. You could also add autoskirm as I think there's a few units that could use it too.
Let me guess. Most units use hitscan(Instant-hit) weapons?
Nah, only a few of them have those, but the units can shoot through each other.

However circling is still important, especially if they do it at maximum range. Meh I'll give it a shot when I have a chance.
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Wisse
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Joined: 10 Jul 2006, 17:50

Re: Auto Swarm

Post by Wisse »

neddiedrow wrote:...Yes, I'm in agreement with your desires Wisse but until a widget can do it better than I can I'm not going to exert myself in full protest. I can be right without beating somebody over it...
It's doing better than anyone of us already. Maybe not for your primary group of units but certainly for your secondary. As you play intense games you get to use 2 or even 3 groups attacking from separate sides, which is incredibly micro intensive but effective. On down-side you're not getting the best out of each group. That phenomena is being more and more eliminated by widgets.

I have absolutely no fear of getting beaten by widget users in normal fight, but when I split my army I can not focus as hard as I would like/need to and that's when widgets kick in, raping my unattended group.
neddiedrow wrote:...You're still working at a tactical level, Rei, you just have a task-automator. There are no real time models of strategy, to be honest. Google, SC is so dependent on micro because it is overplayed and in design quite simple - to differentiate play people had to break it down into manual task oversight, and by some unfortunate twist of fate this became prevalent...
Word.
As I wrote many times, Spring is complete infant as far as skill levels go. That's why we should not dumb it down but instead we should get better. Micro is part of this game (or at least BA) if you like it or not. Solution to everyone's problems are highly organized clan team games, where players are able to divide tasks and focus on them with help of other players and not widgets.

Face it. This is one of the hardest games you'll ever play. That's why I absolutely love it and that's why so many ppl hate it.
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Neddie
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Re: Auto Swarm

Post by Neddie »

Wisse wrote:Face it. This is one of the hardest games you'll ever play. That's why I absolutely love it and that's why so many people hate it.
I'd say, these are indeed some of the most complex and rewarding games we'll ever play. From BA to KP, Gundam to S44, SW:IW to NOTA to CA and beyond...
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1v0ry_k1ng
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Re: Auto Swarm

Post by 1v0ry_k1ng »

Micro is part of this game (or at least BA)
gtfo
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Otherside
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Joined: 21 Feb 2006, 14:09

Re: Auto Swarm

Post by Otherside »

Most Spring mods are way more micro heavy (mainly due to unit count) than most RTS's out there.

So a helping hand that aids you doing something or adds a simple sort of unit AI to help you is fine aslong as micro is always more rewarding.
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Peet
Malcontent
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Joined: 27 Feb 2006, 22:04

Re: Auto Swarm

Post by Peet »

I still think a mod option that disables direct player input and gives each player an ingame luaui text editor would be awesome.
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