The Curious Case of DSDHosts. - Page 4

The Curious Case of DSDHosts.

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albator
Posts: 866
Joined: 14 Jan 2009, 14:20

Re: The Curious Case of DSDHosts.

Post by albator »

I dont see DSD as a problem. It is a great map I enjoy to play. The problem of porc at back (and teck) you describe Carp is the same on a lot of map (tabula-v2, kappa, folsdom, altored, ...)


Of course, if you throw 16 noob on DSD I think you are right to wory, but...

I think it is just up to us to make noob undestand than porcing at back is not going to make them win. For that there is an easy solution: when you play a map, go front and push like hell in T1. If there is a mega porc in front of you, and especially if you dont have some many players in front of you (which of course mean back players are tecking): Combomb !
Also, when you are a veteran, poeple listen to you far more easily. I always ask to the noob who is behind me to spam unit and push T1, explaining him than BA is all about T1.
If you all push T1 in DSD, you win.
By pushing T1 in DSD (with a few combomb ofc :D) , you show poeple how usually are played the 'small game' or 'duels' that some people here describe, and you made them think about all the possibility about a more open map. Consequently, they will eventually look by themself.

To sum up:
- I think DSD is a great map for totally noobs player to enjoy game for some first time (I dont want to rape a noob in 5 minutes with scouts on a small game open map or kbotmap anyway, and i dont think some experience players do like it)
- It is up to verterans to show the way the game has to be played on DSD by pushing T1 (combombing if you think you need to destroy the tecker aspa, ...) to make new players realize by themself than staying back suck (boring spots). If all good player goes front anyway, there is no t2 bomber rush anymore (when you play this game for a long time, I dont think you enjoy to make the same eco plan over and over again for 12 minutes)
- bobble will probabily loose the contest :D
- As long as I can still play any maps I want on fi authost or spads, idc about dsdonlyautohost
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Sucky_Lord
Posts: 531
Joined: 22 Aug 2008, 16:29

Re: The Curious Case of DSDHosts.

Post by Sucky_Lord »

I don't see the problem, the more noobs there are that WANT to porc at the back, the more chance of me getting a decent forward position to enjoy pushing and PLAYING the game :P
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forest_devil
Posts: 139
Joined: 14 Aug 2009, 17:36

Re: The Curious Case of DSDHosts.

Post by forest_devil »

feel free to make a better map and mod combination and play it.

its like complaining about people driving a car because it kills the planet people will listen and complain with you but at the end of the day they will still drive their car to work.
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Carpenter
Posts: 216
Joined: 10 Jul 2009, 16:07

Re: The Curious Case of DSDHosts.

Post by Carpenter »

There is a plenty of better maps than dsd lol. People just dont seem to care if the map is good or not, all they care about is their own survival.
HectorMeyer
Posts: 181
Joined: 13 Jan 2009, 11:20

Re: The Curious Case of DSDHosts.

Post by HectorMeyer »

Being the meatshield is very frustrating if you have an incompetent player idling away behind you. One solution could be a mechanism which forces new players to the front to learn the ropes first, maybe an option to force new players to the front or select starting positions by rank seniority. But I can only see this working properly with skill based ranks.

The extreme advanced fusion oriented gameplay is highly encoured by 2 BA design flaws: Commander Wreck and cheap T2 cons. When you have 3.5k starting metal and the needed technology at almost no cost, going for fusion right away is just limited by a bit of energy and buildpower, and just the sensible thing to do. This degrades the role of the front and early T1 players: instead of deciding the game, they tend to just buy time. T2 airstrikes and nukes really shouldn't happen at the 15 minute mark just from one 3 mex player, at least not without coop play. Bottom line: because ecoing up is so fast, it actually becomes an effective counter to T1 spam.

Anyway DSD is a great map. It's always interesting to watch the comebacks, the basin getting swiped multiple times etc.

Anyways, about the DSD hosts:
I heard this idea of having one dedicated DSD autohost for DSD 24/7, and all other autohost being without DSD. Not a bad idea, it prevents players from entering the room and voting for DSD when people were on a nice streak playing a few other maps. Of course such things shouldn't be forced, but arranged with the consent of the autohost owners.
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PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12

Re: The Curious Case of DSDHosts.

Post by PicassoCT »

Its always them speedmetall players with them Absolut Annhilation..
keijj0
Posts: 57
Joined: 12 Jun 2010, 13:39

Re: The Curious Case of DSDHosts.

Post by keijj0 »

You are not answering the original problem. TOO MANY DSDONLY HOSTS goddamnit. i dont have problem with dsd itself, its ok map but id like to play something fucking else.. nowdays theres usually 2dsdhosts full, ffa and MAYBE some random other map. but almost never u will find more ppl playing non-dsd than dsd.

too little and metal too narrow fronts wont teach u anything but basics -> we have shortage of "pros". i want more competitive matches, where skill is almost equal with all players, since dsd wont produce any new "pros" number of competitive players is growing smaller when old pros are leaving.

if someone disagrees, please come beat me, carpet and baracus for 3/5 matches in ba
Last edited by keijj0 on 26 Aug 2010, 18:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Carpenter
Posts: 216
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Re: The Curious Case of DSDHosts.

Post by Carpenter »

The good old days when XHC, PRO and others were still active.. :(
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CarRepairer
Cursed Zero-K Developer
Posts: 3359
Joined: 07 Nov 2007, 21:48

Re: The Curious Case of DSDHosts.

Post by CarRepairer »

Carpenter wrote:So, in case someone hasn't realised, we have now 3 DSDHosts. So we need to get them closed some way, I don't know how yet but maybe dear moderators and server side admins could help? :)

...

I'm truely amazed if someone will disagree on this, and not just amazed, more like disappointed. Help me and the others! :D

Complainers:

No one on the spring server is ever going to ban a map from spring just because you don't like playing on it.

No one's going to ban a bot from spring just because you don't like the maps it hosts or the number of players it allows.

It's never going to happen. Never. These threads have been numerous over the years indicating that people seriously think server administrators are going to police how people should play.

You have two options. Convince autohost owners to see things your way. Or, learn to advertise the better battles that you want people to play by talking about them in #main. That is all.

Stop cluttering the forums. In fact I'd like to propose a new forum rule: Moderate threads that call on the removal of a map or autohost (unless there's a seriously good reason like the map contains mature content or stolen IP or something). It's insulting to content creators. Seriously, it's time to end this after all these years.
Gouken
Posts: 35
Joined: 18 Aug 2010, 22:55

Re: The Curious Case of DSDHosts.

Post by Gouken »

It's not the fact that we don't like playing it, it's because it gets played 24/7 on 4 different hosts for 5+ years

Everyone is sick of it, no one ever tries new maps, or gets any skill from it

Everyone would have more fun with less dsd and trying out new maps more, everyone just hosts it because its the only map which anyone has so you get a game easy

If someone were to moderate it and limit dsd, then people would get new maps and would realize that other good maps do exist and everyone would be happy and grateful for dsd limit

It is for the greater good you see!
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Peet
Malcontent
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Joined: 27 Feb 2006, 22:04

Re: The Curious Case of DSDHosts.

Post by Peet »

This is sensible:
CarRepairer wrote:No one on the spring server is ever going to ban a map from spring just because you don't like playing on it.

No one's going to ban a bot from spring just because you don't like the maps it hosts or the number of players it allows.

It's never going to happen. Never. These threads have been numerous over the years indicating that people seriously think server administrators are going to police how people should play.
Gouken wrote:it gets played 24/7 on 5 different hosts
Gouken wrote:Everyone is sick of it, no one ever tries new maps
I'm detecting some sort of inconsistency here
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albator
Posts: 866
Joined: 14 Jan 2009, 14:20

Re: The Curious Case of DSDHosts.

Post by albator »

keijj0 wrote:You are not answering the original problem. TOO MANY DSDONLY HOSTS goddamnit. i dont have problem with dsd itself, its ok map but id like to play something fucking else.. nowdays theres usually 2dsdhosts full, ffa and MAYBE some random other map. but almost never u will find more ppl playing non-dsd than dsd.

too little and metal too narrow fronts wont teach u anything but basics -> we have shortage of "pros". i want more competitive matches, where skill is almost equal with all players, since dsd wont produce any new "pros" number of competitive players is growing smaller when old pros are leaving.

if someone disagrees, please come beat me, carpet and baracus for 3/5 matches in ba

I like the evening where some 3vs3 team game gather 20+ specs with good players, after a few matches, it is like a war to know who is going to play next. Problem is : if you make the level to high (that mean if u make a stack of a really good 3 players) noones come. Also, since it is the vacantions, they are lot of less poeple playing.

It you really complain about lake of small game, you should try to get as many poeple as possible to play them. I know carp is doing is but except him, all the other complainnning is this thread dont do it so much according what i know (I hope I am wrong but i dont see ather players trying to do it (PM me :D) ) ; so stop complaining and start acting, the only way to make the thing changes is by teaching other poeple the way to play (and have fun ofc) not by policing the way to play or the autohost. I will try to do my part as anyone else ofc..
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albator
Posts: 866
Joined: 14 Jan 2009, 14:20

Re: The Curious Case of DSDHosts.

Post by albator »

keijj0 wrote:You are not answering the original problem. TOO MANY DSDONLY HOSTS goddamnit. i dont have problem with dsd itself, its ok map but id like to play something fucking else.. nowdays theres usually 2dsdhosts full, ffa and MAYBE some random other map. but almost never u will find more ppl playing non-dsd than dsd.

too little and metal too narrow fronts wont teach u anything but basics -> we have shortage of "pros". i want more competitive matches, where skill is almost equal with all players, since dsd wont produce any new "pros" number of competitive players is growing smaller when old pros are leaving.

if someone disagrees, please come beat me, carpet and baracus for 3/5 matches in ba

I like the evening where some 3vs3 team game gather 20+ specs with good players, after a few matches, it is like a war to know who is going to play next. Problem is : if you make the level to high (that mean if u make a stack of a really good 3 players) noones come. Also, since it is the vacantions, they are lot of less poeple playing.

It you really complain about lake of small game, you should try to get as many poeple as possible to play them. I know carp is doing is but except him, all the other complainnning is this thread dont do it so much according what i know (I hope I am wrong but i dont see ather players trying to do it (PM me :D) ) ; so stop complaining and start acting, the only way to make the thing changes is by teaching other poeple the way to play (and have fun ofc) not by policing the way to play or the autohost. I will try to do my part as anyone else ofc..
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Baracus
Posts: 33
Joined: 29 Sep 2009, 18:19

Re: The Curious Case of DSDHosts.

Post by Baracus »

DSD = Spring, at the moment

on DSD you see t1 - t2 - t3, lots of eco, lots of explosions, lots of fun.
on small games people get kicked or specced because they are "not good enough". and if this continues no-one ever will be good enough.

Why do you think Senna's creation has been so succesfull (2 host with 24 - 16 people playing special). It is because people love to build big stuff, and wanna see big stuff destroying small stuff, or the other way around. If they spec a 1v1-3v3 CCR game, they are like wow thats awsome they are both building lots of stumpy's, where is the krogoth?

If people have fun and want to play big DSD games let them. People will eventually do what they like best, and if 2 pro's + 1 new player, get a 3v3 going against a simular team (3 average players or the same 2 pro's + a newbie) 3v3's will get more players eventually.

The 1v1 scene died too, the 16 vs 16 scene is slowly growing.
Personally I would love to see a cap on games for maximun of 5v5
But for the sack of the comunitee and the fun for new players I'd say sky is the limit.

100 vs 100 players, might be lots of fun? but the current mods might not be intressting enough for this to happen.

Anyway I'm just spitballing my thoughts here.

Adios
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Jazcash
Posts: 5302
Joined: 08 Dec 2007, 17:39

Re: The Curious Case of DSDHosts.

Post by Jazcash »

Peet wrote:
Gouken wrote:it gets played 24/7 on 5 different hosts
Gouken wrote:Everyone is sick of it, no one ever tries new maps
I'm detecting some sort of inconsistency here
Just because people play it doesn't mean they can't hate it. I hate lots of things but I'm still forced to do them because I have to other choice. Most BA players would play something other than DSD if they had the choice. If there's another game with players in than DSD then I'd join that over DSD any day, but most the time, DSD is the only thing going.
klapmongool
Posts: 843
Joined: 13 Aug 2007, 13:19

Re: The Curious Case of DSDHosts.

Post by klapmongool »

CarRepairer wrote:
Carpenter wrote:So, in case someone hasn't realised, we have now 3 DSDHosts. So we need to get them closed some way, I don't know how yet but maybe dear moderators and server side admins could help? :)

...

I'm truely amazed if someone will disagree on this, and not just amazed, more like disappointed. Help me and the others! :D

Complainers:

No one on the spring server is ever going to ban a map from spring just because you don't like playing on it.

No one's going to ban a bot from spring just because you don't like the maps it hosts or the number of players it allows.

It's never going to happen. Never. These threads have been numerous over the years indicating that people seriously think server administrators are going to police how people should play.

You have two options. Convince autohost owners to see things your way. Or, learn to advertise the better battles that you want people to play by talking about them in #main. That is all.

Stop cluttering the forums. In fact I'd like to propose a new forum rule: Moderate threads that call on the removal of a map or autohost (unless there's a seriously good reason like the map contains mature content or stolen IP or something). It's insulting to content creators. Seriously, it's time to end this after all these years.
Carrepairer is right and it is a shame he has to point this out. Multiple posters have tried to point out just this while at the same time handing solutions but the whining is drowning these posts and the potential constructive discussion to be had in this topic.

This is not how things are going to change.

And that is a pity.

Interested in change? Seriously read this topic and find the solutions, they are in here.
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Jazcash
Posts: 5302
Joined: 08 Dec 2007, 17:39

Re: The Curious Case of DSDHosts.

Post by Jazcash »

Well a big way to combat DSD would be to setup more autohosts that support 16 players but rotate different maps. I've done my bit by proving all the [fi] hosts with some decent map rotations. Spads too, but we need more people to sit in them. It really is a simple formula:

Players leads to more players which can only lead to more players. A player is 84.6% more likely to join a game with 15 players than a game with 3 or less players.

To get more players to play other maps, just simply sit idle on a host that doesn't have DSD on it. Somebody should make a script for bots or dummy players to sit in games as players then spec before the game starts to let a proper player in :P
klapmongool
Posts: 843
Joined: 13 Aug 2007, 13:19

Re: The Curious Case of DSDHosts.

Post by klapmongool »

Jazcash wrote:Well a big way to combat DSD would be to setup more autohosts that support 16 players but rotate different maps. I've done my bit by proving all the [fi] hosts with some decent map rotations. Spads too, but we need more people to sit in them. It really is a simple formula:

Players leads to more players which can only lead to more players. A player is 84.6% more likely to join a game with 15 players than a game with 3 or less players.

To get more players to play other maps, just simply sit idle on a host that doesn't have DSD on it. Somebody should make a script for bots or dummy players to sit in games as players then spec before the game starts to let a proper player in :P
Wrong imho. Decrease number of alternative autohosts (to one or two 8v8 hosts) and lure people in with DSD. That is what they know, that is how they mistakenly join the non-only host, that is how you gather host momentum. After a game the nextmap function will take care of DSD. No more than 4 maps in cycle, set DSD as default.

Maybe even add a system to let autohost communicate between each other; 1st host full and running; unlock 2nd host (etc?).
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momfreeek
Posts: 625
Joined: 29 Apr 2008, 16:50

Re: The Curious Case of DSDHosts.

Post by momfreeek »

what a ludicrously convoluted plan. Are you an evil genius klapmongool?
SeanHeron
Engines Of War Developer
Posts: 583
Joined: 09 Jun 2005, 23:39

Re: The Curious Case of DSDHosts.

Post by SeanHeron »

If your willing to put 10 minutes effort into it, and especially if your playing with a mate or two, its easy enough to get a 3 vs 3 or such running. True only in European evenings though, I'll admit...
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