New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds II - Page 3

New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds II

Discuss game development here, from a distinct game project to an accessible third-party mutator, down to the interaction and design of individual units if you like.

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FireStorm_
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by FireStorm_ » 24 Nov 2013, 02:12

Especially with your next creation I'm curious to see the wire-frame too.

When you said earlier that when you tried to customize something, it turned into an awkward mess, you might want to consider that might partly be due to the number of polygons.

I often think: the more you have, the less manageable your model gets :-) . I advice to keep your next model a little more low-poly, so to speak. Also, fine detail is a bit lost on rts models because usual they are viewed from afar. 3D Detail, or rather polygons are often easier to add later-on than they are to remove.

For instance: If I make a cylinder it usually has no less than 6 and no more that 12 sides (apart from top and bottom.) Some shading and I consider it plenty round.

And a last quick tip: with a cup it could already look fine if one just moved the ear into the container a bit :-) . Consider sometimes just using overlapping geometry to make things easier.
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Pyrometheous
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by Pyrometheous » 24 Nov 2013, 22:58

Ok, so I started making the ASP7 droid, which thus far looks like this. I totally agree about the amount of polygons, this damned head took forever, but I tried to make it as simplistic as I could in poly count, and I think its looking pretty good so far.
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Asp7 4.PNG
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ASP7.PNG
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FireStorm_
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by FireStorm_ » 25 Nov 2013, 00:33

That doesn't look too bad.

But if I look at the wire-frame though it looks like you may have some strange lines and planes inside your model. not sure...

Also I again advise to learn how to texture a single square plain, in order to get the image of the thing you are modelling inside your 3D environment, if you haven't already.

It's not so much about learning how to texture, although that'll happen as a bonus :-) , but i think having the front and side there makes all the difference. This picture is supposed to illustrate that advantage:

Image

I spent some time to see what task you were getting into, this picture shows about 1/4 of the time I spent. I must say my attempt to model the head started with a cylinder though. :-)
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Pyrometheous
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by Pyrometheous » 25 Nov 2013, 02:44

How do I add the image to the background like that? is it a textured plane? or is it just a reference feature? I really like the way you lined it up, it kind of makes me want to start over again with this model. The mesh kind of shows were the eye slot faces connected weird when I started attaching them to the "rough" vertices I laid out. But I figured, if the end result looks ok, then the extra "invisible" polies can't hurt. But I'd like to do it more similarly to how you have it with the reference images in the background.

Edit: was drunk when posting, I know how to put in a plain, not yet quite sure how to texture it. I will figure this out, then I will likely restart the model to make it more precise. I was just eye balling it from a pic opened beside the blender window.
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FireStorm_
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by FireStorm_ » 25 Nov 2013, 12:34

good, because I kinda expected you too :-)
...figures seen from the front and the side.
I'm inclined say such an image is a requirement.

...try to texture a single plane. The image for your texture then should be the Concept picture of the labor droid.

If all goes well, you'll have a flat droid :-) , and some handy basic knowledge. Form there it will be easier to do step 2: make a droid next to it that will a look bit more 3D. :-)
I'm inclined to say, check back when you made it that far...
It may also help if you (or anyone) could identify a Blender function that allows you to create a polygon shape in a flat plane by drawing the vertices. please tell me if there is such a function and what it is called; I'd appreciate it.

edit:
Ah... inebriation would explain why I was confused by your questions :-)
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Anarchid
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by Anarchid » 25 Nov 2013, 12:47

This probably will solve the task of injecting arbitrary vertices onto a plane... maybe...
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FireStorm_
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by FireStorm_ » 25 Nov 2013, 13:35

Thanks Anarchid.

Though, I expected to add a vertex to an edge of a square, but instead the square was extruded using the edge. And I didn't know how to keep it flat right away.
Image

I'm searching for a handy way to create a plane using an outline, a bit like a chalk-outline. Something to Trace a shape. Something that would handle like the free-seclect-tool in Gimp (or lasso in PS). I'm not even sure Blender provides that... so I'll probably search some more for it later...
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Anarchid
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by Anarchid » 25 Nov 2013, 13:49

And I didn't know how to keep it flat right away.
Hmm, that's because you have something selected i suspect. Also, you can try locking an axis (see those checkboxes on the left panel on your screenshot).
I'm searching for a handy way to create a plane using an outline, a bit like a chalk-outline
Ah! Sounds like what you need is the knife tool.
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FireStorm_
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by FireStorm_ » 25 Nov 2013, 14:32

Yes, thanks a lot :-)
That seems to be exactly what I wanted to know.
I think I'll experiment with it a bit later...
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Pyrometheous
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by Pyrometheous » 25 Nov 2013, 16:24

I figured it out, and its coming along nicely now :-)

Edit: As I'm working on this, I'm realizing that symmetry is not easy to maintain as you extend from the center of the model, is there a way to clone the left side to look like the right as you start extruding the vertices? I've seen some videos on youtube of people doing this but not sure how to on my own.
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zwzsg
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by zwzsg » 25 Nov 2013, 20:06

You don't need that many polygons. Less polygons make it much easier to UVmap and texture. I count about 30 sides on your cylinders, while FireStorm just said:
FireStorm_ wrote:For instance: If I make a cylinder it usually has no less than 6 and no more that 12 sides
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Pyrometheous
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by Pyrometheous » 25 Nov 2013, 22:19

Thank you for pointing that out, I've decided to slow down a little more, and be more deliberate about what I'm doing, I've gone through and removed about half of the polygons per cylinder, Will also declutter middle area today, I think I want to redo that part any way. I'm pretty happy so far with my progress, been working on it on and off today. Is there a symmetry tool that clones the left and right side so I don't have to do twice the work? I will likely look it up later (unable to at the moment due to being at work).
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FireStorm_
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by FireStorm_ » 25 Nov 2013, 22:27

Your attempt looks very good (i'd say in any case better than the droid head.)

And it must be similar to how I did things... until I realised one day I only needed to model and texture HALF the model, if it was symmetrical down the hight-axis. :-)
is there a way to clone the left side to look like the right as you start extruding the vertices?
Yes! :-) (sort of...)
I'm sorry I didn't have time to check on this tread sooner, because now I'm already to late with telling you the next important thing: Al lot of parts (especially limbs in case of a humanoid) can be mirrored and/or copied.

I'd say the torso of the droid looks a bit like a horseshoe, a U-shape, So one only needs to model half that shape, a J-shape, and mirror that to get a U.
(in wings3D one can select a plane and mirror the model over that plane. I suspect Blender can mirror a mesh somehow as well.)

And you only need to model one droid leg and only one droid arm, because you can copy them. One would need to flip them to create a mirror image, and end up with matching arms and legs.

...

Another important thing to talk about now would be "Block-out."
A Block-out basicly refers to a sketch of your model only using basic shapes, like blocks and cylinders.

I advice to try to identify basic shapes within your concept drawing.
Like: "Well, that shoulder clearly is nothing more that a simple cylinder." If something like that is the case, then I'd just make a simple cylinder and put it in the right place.

Creating complicated shapes that are unique to this particular droid, is best left for later on, when the more easy stuff is already in place, I think. I advice: try to refrain from using tracing-technique when you are working on curved shapes. I'll share of course what I had in mind for the tracing-technique I was asking about, but I'll save that for later.

...

Edit:
I decided also to show my entire progress of trying to model the droid.
I was reluctant because I figured such an image might also be intimidating and thus demotivating, in stead of helpful. I now think it'll mostly help though, so here goes:
Image
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Pyrometheous
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by Pyrometheous » 26 Nov 2013, 15:35

I'm starting to add depth to mine, Let me know if you think I need to reduce the polies again. I've cut it in half from before, but on some of the smaller cylinders its looking quite complex, which is what leads me to feel like it might need to be reduced more.
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Anarchid
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by Anarchid » 26 Nov 2013, 16:02

I say, don't worry about the complexities of those cylinders for now.

This is why:
Image

:P
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FireStorm_
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by FireStorm_ » 26 Nov 2013, 17:58

Yeah! That looks good to me. I'd say: carry on :-)

But do try to remember what I told you about the cup, it being a container and an ear that do not necessary have to connect, but can also be moved into each other, to look like they are connected.
If you work like that, you may find you have more freedom to replace, alter, add, and remove stuff.
(i.e. the droid I posted last, is made up out of 24 separate objects or meshes.)
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Pyrometheous
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by Pyrometheous » 27 Nov 2013, 21:46

I am determined to get this model done today, blerg.... I feel like my brain is melting, though I have gotten a lot done so far this morning, I had to redo the arm entirely, I discovered that the two perspective pictures are not exactly the same angle. But here are some pics of my progress so far.
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asp7_3blend.png
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smoth
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by smoth » 27 Nov 2013, 22:52

Pyro, don't worry about polies. This model will suck. Accept that.

After you finish it, you can then properly look over it. You will learn things the make a new version. Yeah it sucks to throw it awau. This is called a sunk cost effect. Cut your loss and start over after taking the timd to evaluate it .

You have a long road. I don't 100% agree with car on modeling but taking the time to get a solid footing IS important. No one, myself included staarted out as skillful as we are now.

I know you don't know me or if anything I have done. This is not meant to be derisive or condescending. I just see you struggling and feel you should definitely knoe we al started there
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Pyrometheous
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by Pyrometheous » 27 Nov 2013, 23:31

Understood smoth, I really don't want to throw this away at the moment, I've grown quite proud of it in fact. I've completed the half model, and I was wondering, how do I mirror this image along the Z axis? I would like to see how this looks completed. If no one here believes this model will make a decent looking unit, then I can start over.

Also, who is car?

Edit: I figured it out, and Smoth, I guess you're right, as much as I tried, he just looks off once I add symmetry to him...
Also I messed up the arms a bit
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smoth
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by smoth » 28 Nov 2013, 03:11

it doesn't matter if he is off or not. you did it, hey that is a thing. Be proud, save the images and model file. I would just see about starting over. It is easier sometimes, mainly because the subject doesn't change but you can apply what you have learned. :)

I am not sure if this will help you or not..

for things like the pistons, you could get away with 3 sided cylinders(thing prisms) for the inner and 5 sided for the outer sheath. Hell you could do four for the outer sheath if it is large enough.

just food for thought.

If you ever want a wireframe of any of my past works, feel free to request and I will post them In my thread(so I don't thread jack you). Best of luck.
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