Fix the flattened ground cheat thing

Fix the flattened ground cheat thing

Discuss the source code and development of Spring Engine in general from a technical point of view. Patches go here too.

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Maelstrom
Posts: 1950
Joined: 23 Jul 2005, 14:52

Fix the flattened ground cheat thing

Post by Maelstrom »

If anyone doesnt know what this is, its where you look around the map for flattened areas, created when buildings are placed. You can find your enemy's base this way. Just look for land with lots of flat squares in it.

I know its not a big issue or anything, but I just thought up a way that could possibly fix this. Better yet, it probably isnt to hard to implement. What I suggest is this:

Store the height map twice. One for what the terrain actually looks like, with flat bits from buildings and holes from explosions, and one for what you can see. When land is deformed, the deformation is stored on the first height map thing. When land comes into LOS, the height data for that area is updated from the first height map. The second height map is then used for rendering. This way, you only see deformations when you have LOS on them.

Dunno if this would work at all, but it might be worth thinking about. I have no idea how the source handles height data, so this might be totally impossible. But then again it might not be. I dunno.
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Das Bruce
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Joined: 23 Nov 2005, 06:16

Post by Das Bruce »

Sounds fair enough, but what sort of effect will it have on memory usage devs?
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Kuroneko
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Joined: 03 Jan 2005, 05:32

Post by Kuroneko »

I just tell my builders to restore the ground after building...problem solved. On top of that, the people that rely on that are totaly taken offguard.
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Das Bruce
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Post by Das Bruce »

That would consume alot of buildtime.
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Doomweaver
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Joined: 30 Oct 2004, 14:14

Post by Doomweaver »

I hate the way you can look for wreckages to see if the enemy has died (or the explosion). This is in my opinion is far more important, because it hugely affects gameplay. It's better if your rely on your radar to see if a dot has dissappeared. Plus i'm sure it would be easier to fix.

On another note, units chasing other units indefinately is not a major bug, and doesn't need to be fixed imo.
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Kelson
Posts: 76
Joined: 29 Oct 2005, 08:32

Re: Fix the flattened ground cheat thing

Post by Kelson »

What the hell? Why did it post? I wanted to pm! These boards are going crazy on me lately...
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Guessmyname
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Joined: 28 Apr 2005, 21:07

Post by Guessmyname »

Little tip/bug/cheat thing. You have a building on rough terrain. Don't want to wait for ground to flatten out? tell the unit to repair the building (as it is there, it just doesn't gain health until the ground is flat). Then the building is actually being built (because the unit is asisting construction) while the ground isn't being flattened
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electricitylikesme
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Joined: 27 Jan 2006, 09:37

Post by electricitylikesme »

I like the idea as proposed in the first post though it does sound like memory usage could be a problem. Still, it does seem like the only workable solution to the problem, and at high levels of play it really could be a problem.
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Caydr
Omnidouche
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Post by Caydr »

I doubt that memory usage would be an issue. According to one of Zaphod's posts... or... a thread he posted in... something to that effect anyway... Spring generally only utilizes a fraction of the average computers RAM. Like, 70 MB. Most every computer that is capable of playing spring has more than 70 MB to spare.
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SwiftSpear
Classic Community Lead
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Post by SwiftSpear »

The heightmap doesn't take up an exorbitantly massive ammount of ram anyways.
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Zenka
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Joined: 05 Oct 2005, 15:29

Post by Zenka »

The solution sounds simple. Let's see what Zaphod has to say about it.
And is the heighmap really that meory consuming. I doubt it. (ins what Caydr said, ofcourse)
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patmo98
Posts: 188
Joined: 09 Jan 2006, 17:51

Post by patmo98 »

Caydr wrote:I doubt that memory usage would be an issue. According to one of Zaphod's posts... or... a thread he posted in... something to that effect anyway... Spring generally only utilizes a fraction of the average computers RAM. Like, 70 MB. Most every computer that is capable of playing spring has more than 70 MB to spare.
Is it unusual that my copy of spring uses about 250-350MB or RAM while I'm playing?
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Warlord Zsinj
Imperial Winter Developer
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59

Post by Warlord Zsinj »

IIRC,you can tell where the enemy mines are by seeing which metal patches are mined by looking at the metal HUD.
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jcnossen
Former Engine Dev
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Joined: 05 Jun 2005, 19:13

Post by jcnossen »

Ok I will try to take LOS into account when I plug my terrain renderer into spring. The new terrain renderer keeps a seperate copy of the heightmap anyway, so it wouldn't use more memory.

However spring uses a lot more than than 70 mb AFAIK, I think patmo98 is right about that... Your opinions about memory use is as good as mine though, I'm just using the task manager too ;)
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AF
AI Developer
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Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 11:32

Post by AF »

process explorer during the memory leak problem shows spring.exe as havign an average of around 251MB to 270MB playing an average game offline on XTA testing the AI's, but it peaked at 1.6GB due to a problem I was havign at the time with NTAI which was since fixed.
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Nemo
Spring 1944 Developer
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Joined: 30 Jan 2005, 19:44

Post by Nemo »

Warlord Zsinj wrote:IIRC,you can tell where the enemy mines are by seeing which metal patches are mined by looking at the metal HUD.
Only if you have LOS on them.
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IMSabbel
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005, 13:29

Post by IMSabbel »

Not exactly.

It also shows if you have los to the metal... even if the spot of the extractor is still not visible.
A small, but with large extractor radii often significant difference
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gheeber
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006, 00:50

Post by gheeber »

One thing i found in my limmited ammount of time playing spring (just stumbled upon it last night and i have to say im impressed) is that you can see all terrain right off the bat. i personnaly like fog of war and the blackness of the unknown, i think it would be cool to have like in the original an option to have map previously explored

My idea was to maybe color the terrain 100% black untill its explored and grey out a bit and not update with fog of war. This sort of goes along with the second terrain map idea... but not really.

doh! there goes my rule of not posting on a forum untill spectating for a few days
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IMSabbel
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005, 13:29

Post by IMSabbel »

Well, what use would it have to black the map?

This is not single player where you discover a hidden enemy land...
Its multiplayer, where everybody just 5 minutes ago could look at the complete minimap, including the default start positions...
Forcing it to be discovered would just help people who already know the map by hearth and know where to expand/find metal.
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AF
AI Developer
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Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 11:32

Post by AF »

Knowing the new map format it could well be possible to generate random maps based on a general terrain style, say random grass/mountain maps that look the same texture wise...

In such an event as that being done, the fog of war sorta blackness would idneed be useful....
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