Why single thread is en of spring for me - Page 5

Why single thread is en of spring for me

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smoth
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Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by smoth » 17 Jan 2014, 04:07

albator wrote:raar, don't listen so smoth, he almost never plays ba and each time he was asked to post benchmark/replay to prove his statement he never did.
You never asked this.
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Forboding Angel
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Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by Forboding Angel » 17 Jan 2014, 07:16

albator wrote:Hopefully the dev will work on spring-multithread again...
Spring 96 is multithreaded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_pool_pattern
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AntiAllez
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Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by AntiAllez » 17 Jan 2014, 12:19

Forboding Angel wrote:Spring 96 is multithreaded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_pool_pattern
This contradicts with the statement not to waste resources for multithreading. :shock:
abma wrote:- MTsim development should be stopped as it still blocks other improvements and slows down general development
Now 3 engine devs instead of 4 working on it- or to bring it to the point: the only dev with skill regarding gfx issues trying it and the result is inefficiency on. :|
Forboding Angel wrote:Just fucking wait a bit for the multithreading work JK is doing.
Its a strange competition on a open source project that never seen before. How many closed threads exist here now because this theme... the a-side requirement after the source code leads to ridiculous especially since the existing code in the spring database was not deleted from Zerver himself. His fork was the logical decision to bring progress after he lost access. But here are already hop and malt lost, this decision is closed to personal differences and not into how to solve the situation. Two conflicts parties meets here, that one that have trouble to run springgames on their system and the side with the alleged mighty lever that like in their role as legislative. Nobody critism your work and that many time you spend on, it is the partial complacency and desolate colloquial together that end up into sickly code.

who are the evil? i cannot judget. but when you open such doors it will gradually guzzle you.
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SinbadEV
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Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by SinbadEV » 17 Jan 2014, 13:03

No. One side is upset that someone is breaching the terms of GPL and the other side is constantly making excuses for why he's breaching the terms of the GPL.

If the discussion was about a fork of spring that extended a feature that the official branch has abandoned nobody would have to lock threads.
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knorke
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Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by knorke » 17 Jan 2014, 16:06

AntiAllez wrote:This contradicts with the statement not to waste resources for multithreading. :shock:
Those statemens were about not to waste resources on zerver's implentetion of multithreading, not all multithreading.
who are the evil? i cannot judget.
I don't know if that qualifies as "evil" for you, but to me it is at least ignorant: zerver ignoring all questions about publishing source. Even if players ask about it like here: "I am using Linux, and I want to compile it from source. Is that possible ?"

Is this "evil" for you:
Putting all the games on his page without having asked creators.
As far I have seen all game creators were against having their mod on zervers page as soon as they noticed it; he still put them there.
To make it more absurd he added text under the games list that reads:
zervers page wrote:Do you want MT support added to your game?
File a request! (email)
making it seem like as if creators asked him to list their games there. They did not!

I understand most players do not care about licenses or opensource ideas. Still in such things it must be clear to them too, why zervers behaviour is bad.
His fork was the logical decision to bring progress after he lost access.
His fork was not logical but emotional decision.
Logical would have been to accept that other devs said his work was "not going to work out with rest of spring/them" for whatever technical reasons. And then either stop working on it or make his own spring-fork, obeying license blabla. Not this trololo that is happening now.
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raaar
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Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by raaar » 17 Jan 2014, 17:05

maybe at the time these discussions took place integrating zerver's code or architecture would mean a bigger bugfest than threadpools, maybe it was messy at the time, dunno.

thing is, if it now seems considerably faster, why is that?

Arguing about code details here may be pointless as most of us won't have any meaningful feedback to give. There should be some exchange of information between the devs as to why? Is there a tradeoff from a big picture, architecture point of view, or is it the many details that got improved in spring 95 and 96 that are missing. Is it mostly related to animations, pathfinding, avoiding a specific bottleneck that in threadpools gets handled by a single thread?

I get the feeling that exchange isn't happening.
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knorke
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Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by knorke » 17 Jan 2014, 17:18

maybe at the time these discussions took place integrating zerver's code or architecture would mean a bigger bugfest than threadpools, maybe it was messy at the time, dunno.
Yes, supposedly something like that.
thing is, if it now seems considerably faster, why is that?
Seems. Only zerver and some "selected, supporting" players posted results.
Another thing is imo unrealistic tests. The more impressive results are on "Superspam" demo at 10x speed on supercomputer (see the asking for hexacores), not representative imo. (btw for me it was slower)
There should be some exchange of information between the devs as to why?
There supposedly was such talk.
If you look around forum (github comments too i think) might find something.
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SirMaverick
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Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by SirMaverick » 17 Jan 2014, 17:29

SinbadEV wrote:No. One side is upset that someone is breaching the terms of GPL and the other side is constantly making excuses for why he's breaching the terms of the GPL.

If the discussion was about a fork of spring that extended a feature that the official branch has abandoned nobody would have to lock threads.
+1
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Anarchid
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Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by Anarchid » 17 Jan 2014, 18:09

SinbadEV wrote:One side is upset that someone is breaching the terms of GPL and the other side is constantly making excuses for why he's breaching the terms of the GPL.
+1

All zerver ever had to do to become a legitimate fork was to publish sources, but he prefers to hold them hostage and invest in DNS protection for his site in case he gets sued.
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100Gbps
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Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by 100Gbps » 17 Jan 2014, 20:33

smoth wrote:What games? All the console ported crap we have had shoveled on us by the industry for around a decade?
Nope, just do a Google search
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The Yak
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Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by The Yak » 17 Jan 2014, 21:09

In Thread Today: Noobs still don't realize that 95.0 and up is already multithreaded
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SinbadEV
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Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by SinbadEV » 17 Jan 2014, 21:12

The Yak wrote:In Thread Today: Noobs still don't realize that 95.0 and up is already multithreaded
It's threaded in a significantly different manner though (vs "zerver's" implementation)... so the confusion is understandable.
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smoth
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Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by smoth » 17 Jan 2014, 21:25

100Gbps wrote:
smoth wrote:What games? All the console ported crap we have had shoveled on us by the industry for around a decade?
Nope, just do a Google search
No. I am asking you to cite your claim.
SinbadEV wrote:It's threaded in a significantly different manner though (vs "zerver's" implementation)...
yes
SinbadEV wrote: so the confusion is understandable.
no, all the ignorant asshats and zerver's bullshiting has made it confusing.
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Cheesecan
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Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by Cheesecan » 17 Jan 2014, 21:47

From a brief look, the threadpool code on github seems quite recent and not all plugged in yet. But given time, there's no reason to expect that Spring will be any worse than zerver's fork.

There's really no need for all the drama.

What zerver is doing is quite suspect. I'm not saying he's doing anything foul though. You be the judge of his character and decide for yourself if you want to support someone who feels free to obscure and "help himself".
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smoth
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Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by smoth » 18 Jan 2014, 02:29

Cheesecan wrote:From a brief look, the threadpool code on github seems quite recent and not all plugged in yet. But given time, there's no reason to expect that Spring will be any worse than zerver's fork.

There's really no need for all the drama
Because they like causing drama
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Forboding Angel
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Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by Forboding Angel » 18 Jan 2014, 04:12

One of the reasons that BA runs like shit is because they refuse to use anythign but the default engine explosion effects, crippling any poor bastard that forgot to turn his particle settings down below 5k.
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AntiAllez
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Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by AntiAllez » 18 Jan 2014, 08:15

Forboding Angel wrote:One of the reasons that BA runs like shit is because they refuse to use anythign but the default engine explosion effects, crippling any poor bastard that forgot to turn his particle settings down below 5k.
I dont think so, the default settings quite lower.
Anarchid wrote:but he prefers to hold them hostage and invest in DNS protection for his site in case he gets sued.
You are talking about here seriously :mrgreen:
knorke wrote:Only zerver and some "selected, supporting" players posted results.
Another thing is imo unrealistic tests. The more impressive results are on "Superspam" demo at 10x speed on supercomputer (see the asking for hexacores), not representative imo. (btw for me it was slower)
Selected? there is no any special nor celebrites- everybody can do the same... on what system did you tested it? Do you call Core2Duo a supermachine?



Well, if i noticed it right there was a long time ago a decussion about to exchange the .exe by mt between devs. Sinced these days grows that war. I cannot everything comprehend behind the scenes, but it looks as if no one wants to give in. If i understood him right he had already intended to publish the source without terms, what failed by warfare.
I know there is a seldom communication between zerver and abma, so i think the terms to public the source are clearly. I can only hope both sides can find a compromise into a rapid way. I'm sure the community would welcome this at the end.
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Forboding Angel
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Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by Forboding Angel » 18 Jan 2014, 12:17

AntiAllez wrote:
Forboding Angel wrote:One of the reasons that BA runs like shit is because they refuse to use anythign but the default engine explosion effects, crippling any poor bastard that forgot to turn his particle settings down below 5k.
I dont think so, the default settings quite lower.
You aren't getting it... The end result is that in the late game the max particles is constantly pegged because the engine explosions waste particles like crazy. The end result is drastically reduced performance on lower end machines.
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Cheesecan
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Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by Cheesecan » 18 Jan 2014, 12:27

smoth wrote:
Cheesecan wrote:From a brief look, the threadpool code on github seems quite recent and not all plugged in yet. But given time, there's no reason to expect that Spring will be any worse than zerver's fork.

There's really no need for all the drama
Because they like causing drama
Yeah, I know.
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Anarchid
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Re: Why single thread is en of spring for me

Post by Anarchid » 18 Jan 2014, 14:36

You are talking about here seriously
Your statement doesn't parse. But in case you didn't know, shortly after one of those failed propaganda attempts, rtpms.com had its dns cloaked, and i can't imagine any other reason why.
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