Why not SpringRTS? - Page 4

Why not SpringRTS?

Post just about everything that isn't directly related to Spring here!

Moderator: Moderators

varikonniemi
Posts: 447
Joined: 03 Jul 2011, 11:54

Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by varikonniemi » 10 Aug 2013, 14:15

I have zero doubt that we can use what spring has to offer to make stunning, beautiful animations comparable to most modern rts games. The problem is that compared to more modern methods of animating units, what we have is rocket science.

The link smoth posted contains some of the best animations for spring i have ever seen. Why is no-one using content of such quality in production spring games? Because the tools required to come up with those animations simply are not freely available.
0 x

User avatar
Anarchid
Posts: 1380
Joined: 30 Nov 2008, 04:31

Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by Anarchid » 10 Aug 2013, 15:53

Because the tools required to come up with those animations simply are not freely available.
Spring content-devs readily use expensive, "non freely available tools" like worldmachine.

Issue with this example and that dude who made the game about lackey infantry, is that tools aren't available pretty much at all.
0 x

User avatar
Beherith
Moderator
Posts: 4933
Joined: 26 Oct 2007, 16:21

Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by Beherith » 10 Aug 2013, 16:08

Anarchid, if you devise a keyframed animation workflow for any commercial or free software that is capable of exporting to an open animation format, then the problem is more than solveable.

The pure fact of animation is that it is an extremely difficult and work intensive task.
0 x

Kloot
Spring Developer
Posts: 1865
Joined: 08 Oct 2006, 16:58

Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by Kloot » 10 Aug 2013, 16:27

varikonniemi wrote: Because the tools required to come up with those animations simply are not freely available.
Wrong answer.

A Blender (or Max, or whatever) keyframe-animation-to-long-list-of-piece-turn-and-move-commands-exporter-script/plugin is really all that would be required for most people's purposes, yet do you see them writing one?

For some reason "recent advances" always have to come from others.
0 x

User avatar
smoth
Posts: 22297
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by smoth » 10 Aug 2013, 17:26

Kloot wrote:A Blender (or Max, or whatever) keyframe-animation-to-long-list-of-piece-turn-and-move-commands-exporter-script/plugin is really all that would be required for most people's purposes, yet do you see them writing one?
! Kloot do you know how to do blender animation? I need someone to donate some time to do a few for one of my models so I can use it as a base to write said exporter! Can you help?
0 x

User avatar
KDR_11k
Game Developer
Posts: 8293
Joined: 25 Jun 2006, 08:44

Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by KDR_11k » 10 Aug 2013, 18:29

I tried exporting anims from Blender once but failed at the maths. Nowadays Blender can give you rotations in the exact format you need for Spring AFAIK so it would be easier. However the lack of mesh deformation is brutal.

There's definitely a lot you can do with Blender that you would have no chance doing just with manual unit script coding. Modern animation tools can add so many things automatically that even the derpiest animator can get something decent out of them. Back in the days of Milkshape even keeping a foot on the ground during a walk was a nightmare, now that's a trivial task.
0 x

User avatar
smoth
Posts: 22297
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by smoth » 10 Aug 2013, 18:42

Last I tried blender animation tutorials I ran into issues setting up the skeletons. Could you setup a skeleton on one of my mechs kdr and do a basic animation on it? or can you point me to some good tutorial on it?
0 x

Kloot
Spring Developer
Posts: 1865
Joined: 08 Oct 2006, 16:58

Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by Kloot » 11 Aug 2013, 02:26

smoth wrote:Kloot do you know how to do blender animation?
Nope.

If I did (or had access to an example model plus animation) I would probably [have] whip[ped] something up.
0 x

User avatar
smoth
Posts: 22297
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by smoth » 11 Aug 2013, 03:15

it is a funny chicken and egg situation isn't it?
0 x

User avatar
KDR_11k
Game Developer
Posts: 8293
Joined: 25 Jun 2006, 08:44

Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by KDR_11k » 11 Aug 2013, 12:34

What were the issues you had? You need to create an armature, then extrude the bone chain to get what you want.
0 x

User avatar
smoth
Posts: 22297
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by smoth » 11 Aug 2013, 16:50

back then noob to pro was missing steps to create the armature
0 x

varikonniemi
Posts: 447
Joined: 03 Jul 2011, 11:54

Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by varikonniemi » 11 Aug 2013, 23:28

Kloot wrote:
varikonniemi wrote: Because the tools required to come up with those animations simply are not freely available.
Wrong answer.

A Blender (or Max, or whatever) keyframe-animation-to-long-list-of-piece-turn-and-move-commands-exporter-script/plugin is really all that would be required for most people's purposes, yet do you see them writing one?

For some reason "recent advances" always have to come from others.
So you say "here is an almost complete answer, just hack it together"?
That is exactly what i tried to express. It is possible to make stunning content in the spring engine. The matter of fact is that almost no-one is capable of this, since we simply do not have the tools for it.

Other engines use content created in formats with readily available editors. This is what spring is up against.
0 x

User avatar
Beherith
Moderator
Posts: 4933
Joined: 26 Oct 2007, 16:21

Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by Beherith » 12 Aug 2013, 01:07

@vari: Good job on missing the point. Twice.
0 x

User avatar
knorke
Posts: 7971
Joined: 22 Feb 2006, 01:02

Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by knorke » 12 Aug 2013, 08:38

Did anyone ever post a derpy WIP video of something they animated in some 3d tool and expressing wish to export this to spring?
A video like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOC-fs9JHEo but with a spring unit.
Appearently it is so easy to make good looking animations?
Instead just see "how do i shot web" questions about these programs.
0 x

gajop
Moderator
Posts: 3023
Joined: 05 Aug 2009, 20:42

Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by gajop » 12 Aug 2013, 10:39

Can always go here: http://www.blender.org/download/get-blender/ and get regression files, they should include blender examples. Then look for skeletal animations.
0 x

User avatar
smoth
Posts: 22297
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by smoth » 12 Aug 2013, 13:48

knorke wrote:Did anyone ever post a derpy WIP video of something they animated in some 3d tool and expressing wish to export this to spring?
I remember that dune guy who came in with a lot of content, last i checked he never actually got anywhere
knorke wrote:A video like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOC-fs9JHEo but with a spring unit.
never to that level in many communities but I am old and don't track the current generation of modding. I cannot recall anyone posting something like this.
knorke wrote:Appearently it is so easy to make good looking animations?
I don't think so but then again, so far, I am terrible at animation
knorke wrote:Instead just see "how do i shot web" questions about these programs.
knorke, clarify your statement here.
0 x

User avatar
zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
Posts: 7015
Joined: 16 Nov 2004, 13:08

Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by zwzsg » 12 Aug 2013, 21:15

I understand knorke statement as: It's pointless to ask for better animation workflow until somebody has an animation to port to Spring.
So:
- First, create an impressive animation in whatever animator or 3d modelling suite you like.
- Only then shall we discuss how to convert it to a Spring compatible format.
0 x

User avatar
smoth
Posts: 22297
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by smoth » 12 Aug 2013, 22:01

I get that part. it is why I am trying to understand how the animation in blender works. Because if I can figure that I can sit down and do stuff.

I think starting with something terribly complex is a bad idea. I would start with something like a mech doing a pelvic thrust then work on it from there.
0 x

User avatar
FLOZi
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
Posts: 6106
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 01:14

Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by FLOZi » 12 Aug 2013, 23:38

zwzsg wrote:I understand knorke statement as: It's pointless to ask for better animation workflow until somebody has an animation to port to Spring.
So:
- First, create an impressive animation in whatever animator or 3d modelling suite you like.
- Only then shall we discuss how to convert it to a Spring compatible format.
Someone find SpikedHelmets old max videos in the art thread.

edit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEFR-ONA4EY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5jtMIeBWcI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-wQRUqhyZ0
0 x

Google_Frog
Moderator
Posts: 2434
Joined: 12 Oct 2007, 09:24

Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by Google_Frog » 13 Aug 2013, 08:54

Just to clear this up. I'm pretty sure the Dune people left because they couldn't find anyone to use Spring for them. They were a bunch of artists with a design document which were out looking for an engine along with a group of specialist programmers to recruit. We don't supply that.

This is what we tend to do with new people. They come here with an idea and perhaps some art and ask us about Spring. We usually tell them whether it is possible and point them towards resources which will teach them how to make the game themselves. When people come in with a "must recruit coders" mindset we end up talking past each other.

"The Spring Community" responds to this mindset poorly with "So you want us to make your game for you?" which is understandable. For all I know there are engines out there with a community of coders waiting around for projects to join. In that regard those engines have an advantage over Spring.
0 x

Post Reply

Return to “Off Topic Discussion”