Unlimited Polygons Technology is back - Page 3

Unlimited Polygons Technology is back

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Sabutai
Posts: 413
Joined: 18 Dec 2005, 05:55

Re: Unlimited Polygons Technology is back

Post by Sabutai »

smoth wrote:
Sabutai wrote:Yeah right, why would one save every grain of dirt individually? Wouldn't one make 10 and copy paste them? Like dirtgrain_01 lies here: a b c and so on. The same goes with rocks and trees.
those "grains" of dirt were about 3-4inches across in those videos
What's your point? I am talking about not having to store the data of each and every voxel. You can build a library and populate the world with rotated, coloured versions of objects.
smoth wrote:
Sabutai wrote:And as zwzsg says, why not combine it with an polygons: have a 3 points in space filled with soandso kind of voxels. That way you only need to store minimal amounts of data and you can do movement quite easily.
Many older games used voxels (see blood) along with polygonal data
Yes, I mentioned it's possible.
smoth wrote:
Sabutai wrote:And why won't ATI or Nvidia invest in this? They make money selling gfx cards. Along comes a method to do it all better via software. They'd kill their business.
because it isn't worth it to them. I keep trying to tell people computers are not magic.

in laymans terms:

you will have 3 things

hardware overhead
poor performance
too expensive to develop

Developers choose between 2 of these 3 every day. They claim this method is unlimited in name but if you stop being enamored by their bullshit term you would realize in the first video this is very much gpu bound. Software rendering is that way. Which takes out the whole advantage of using a video card. Your video card is dedicated to rendering. By taking the cpu and forcing it to cover rendering as well you reduce the amount of power for the plethora of other calculations that will also need the cpu.

From the perspective of an artist:
The video goes on and on about the lack of soft visual data. How polygons have hard transitions between objects but that isn't always the case. That's all well and good but their approach loses something IMO much more valuable. hard edges. it is through the contrast of hard and soft that we get really good stuff. so I think in the future we would need to see a hybrid and frankly because voxels do NOT use a texture they would have to be much finer. well except for the retro style art because that is cool to some. However, for your halo, cod anything that is supposed to be actually good looking this stuff is useless.

that is why.
So because you don't understand it it's magic?
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smoth
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Re: Unlimited Polygons Technology is back

Post by smoth »

My point is because you don't understand it is magic. Or at least very close to it
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Sabutai
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Re: Unlimited Polygons Technology is back

Post by Sabutai »

Really, I am explaining it to you. :-)
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smoth
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Re: Unlimited Polygons Technology is back

Post by smoth »

English must not be you first language.
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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Re: Unlimited Polygons Technology is back

Post by zwzsg »

Sabutai wrote:And as zwzsg says, why not combine it with an polygons
I said using compression, not polygons!
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smoth
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Re: Unlimited Polygons Technology is back

Post by smoth »

I think he is havingdifficulty with his english Z
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KaiserJ
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Re: Unlimited Polygons Technology is back

Post by KaiserJ »

well i broke your post this morning trying to respond, very sloppy of me... very sorry for that;

i'll keep it brief because this is just turning into some shit-flinging

just because something like nice animation does not currently exist doesn't mean it will not exist in the future. am i saying FOR SURE its possible? no. but. i've lived through the expansion of 3d technology... bitmap 2d to polygon 3d and then the advancement of techniques for popular games... like the steps from wolfenstein to doom to quake.

has polygon technology reached a plateau? no, because more and more advanced engines and methods appear every year, spurred on with advancements like VRAM and big-ass graphics cards. playing wolfenstien, did i ever imagine i would be able to play a game on an engine with features like displaceable terrain, LOD, ragdoll, vehicles... (talking about frostbite used for BFBC2 as it's what i'm most familiar with in terms of a modern engine)

for this same reason, i feel like voxels can be pushed further. hybridization of an engine to use both could be an option; how about using vertex-style envelopes to control voxel movement? there are conceivably lots of ways to work with them, and i feel like every time i see a video of game tech or even a demo using voxels that i'm seeing a big step forward. and yes, it would take an assload of money.

notches post... the title states like a fact, and the entire article is really just his opinion. it's misleading and reads like one of those articles in the 4th grade level tabloid newspapers.

and no, im not saying this because i -believe- that euclideon does or does not represent something real, im basing ALL of it on my own experiences with games that i've played, articles i've read, and my own inferences. this post is just opinion, and i'm not trying to dress it up like a fact (which is exactly why i don't like notch's post)

hitting me up with 1-2 word responses is not a fair argument; we can't even have a discussion if all you can say is "no" capische? the reason for my response is that it's a subject that interests me, i would like to know more about them.

if you're having trouble with sabutai, i'll allow you to go against board rules just this once and speak to him in german if you like :-)

now lets all stop flinging shit around and have an interesting discussion about voxels without semantics and trying to make people feel stupid mkay
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smoth
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Re: Unlimited Polygons Technology is back

Post by smoth »

I am not trying to make people feel stupid I am trying to be simple in my explanation. Any condescension is between your ears.

I listed a game that already did both kaiser, blood. It is as old as dirt.

You are reading a blog like it is professional correspondence. Why people on the interwebs demand seriously impressive discussions from mental poop like blogs confounds me but I should not be surprised as that seems to be articles people like posting lately. IMO take any blog as retard spunk and you'll be much safer.
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Sabutai
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Re: Unlimited Polygons Technology is back

Post by Sabutai »

I am an englishman. But why should I bother talking to a troll anyway?
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smoth
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Re: Unlimited Polygons Technology is back

Post by smoth »

And why would you make the assumption I am trolling you. This is my trolling MO at all.
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KaiserJ
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Re: Unlimited Polygons Technology is back

Post by KaiserJ »

Sabutai wrote:I am an englishman
mind = blown. i swear every time i've spoken to you, you've had a german flag :oops:
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Das Bruce
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Re: Unlimited Polygons Technology is back

Post by Das Bruce »

When was the last time an Englishman went to Germany?
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Sabutai
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Re: Unlimited Polygons Technology is back

Post by Sabutai »

I live there. 8)
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PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
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Re: Unlimited Polygons Technology is back

Post by PicassoCT »

For hes a englishman, for he himself has said it, and its greatly to his credit, that he is a englishman, he remains aaaaahhhhhn english-man!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPQE3GfkrOo
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rattle
Damned Developer
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Re: Unlimited Polygons Technology is back

Post by rattle »

attention, to all englishmen: please show your bad teeth as evidence of heritage
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PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12

Re: Unlimited Polygons Technology is back

Post by PicassoCT »

I am a teeth-transformer, watch me morphin from camera-whoar to boar in no time. :mrgreen:
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Sabutai
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Joined: 18 Dec 2005, 05:55

Re: Unlimited Polygons Technology is back

Post by Sabutai »

As it seems, they don't need any more money. This video answers many questions:

Euclideon & Unlimited Detail - Bruce Dell Interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVB1ayT6Fdc
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Das Bruce
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Re: Unlimited Polygons Technology is back

Post by Das Bruce »

I wish he would stop saying "level of distance".
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PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
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Re: Unlimited Polygons Technology is back

Post by PicassoCT »

What really bothers me, is not the 3d race, but how bad actually the contenct-creation software followed the advances. Im not talking about 3dsmax, but comoner-usable software like the spore-creature creator, or minecraft.

Those are the real handicaps of today. Imagine there was software, so that every nub could create a normal mapped everything in notime, and craft that into a game of his choice. You saw what happened with minecraft, you could imagine what would happen, if people just draw there tanks and dropped them in, looking (halfway, you never gonna replace advanced taste) decent.

Im actually more waiting for this to happen, than the next advances in 3d technology. We reached a plateau- were even games using source can look as good to a nub as the latest generation crysis.
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AF
AI Developer
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Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 11:32

Re: Unlimited Polygons Technology is back

Post by AF »

Not so recent advances....
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