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Curious

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Raghna
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Re: Curious

Post by Raghna »

Satirik wrote:german killed 2millions jew in 4years, japanese killed millions (20 millions ?) of chinese in 3years ... who wins ?
And what do you think Islam extremists would do if they'd gain absolute global power? Hm?

This is not a contest about what war has the most casualties.

This is about: should we let Islam extremists brutally KILL western cartoonists because they draw a picture of their prophet in OUR own countries?

How about you answer that question first instead of pointing the other way trying to ignore it.
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KaiserJ
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Re: Curious

Post by KaiserJ »

dude really?
This is about: should we let Islam extremists brutally KILL western cartoonists because they draw a picture of their prophet in OUR own countries?
why would anyone in their right mind disagree with this; nobody has yet. its ridiculous, and should not / is not condoned by either the members of this forum or the governments presiding over the victims in question.

you're saying it like they can kill whoever they want and get off without punishment, which is far from the case
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Satirik
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Re: Curious

Post by Satirik »

Raghna wrote:
Satirik wrote:german killed 2millions jew in 4years, japanese killed millions (20 millions ?) of chinese in 3years ... who wins ?
And what do you think Islam extremists would do if they'd gain absolute global power? Hm?

This is not a contest about what war has the most casualties.

This is about: should we let Islam extremists brutally KILL western cartoonists because they draw a picture of their prophet in OUR own countries?

How about you answer that question first instead of pointing the other way trying to ignore it.
the thing is ... i hate all believers, americans first, because they live in the ~same conditions than i do and are all fuckin retarded believers, no one is forcing them, when you have a muslim family you're almost forced to be a muslim (if you want to keep your family)
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Raghna
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Re: Curious

Post by Raghna »

KaiserJ wrote: ...
Yes, Christians are anything but angels and did horrible things in the past. Now if you could read this sentence properly you'd notice the last 3 words: in the past. Today in our western world we prohibit such acts and they're severely punished whereas in the Middle East, people are still being stoned to death, assassinated,... for those same reasons we got over centuries ago.

My parents are Christians, I had to go to the church every Sunday when I was a kid, and I of all people know how stupid Christianity is.
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Raghna
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Re: Curious

Post by Raghna »

KaiserJ wrote:why would anyone in their right mind disagree with this; nobody has yet. its ridiculous, and should not / is not condoned by either the members of this forum or the governments presiding over the victims in question
Exactly, and the only way I can see to defend these people peacefully apart from spending so much on protection of anyone that draws a cartoon of Muhammad, is this 'everybody draw Muhammad day'.

If you know anything better, let me know.
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Peet
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Re: Curious

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KaiserJ
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Re: Curious

Post by KaiserJ »

Yes, Christians are anything but angels and did horrible things in the past.
i said this in my first post in this thread
Now if you could read this sentence properly you'd notice the last 3 words
i dont understand how i've misinterpreted or misread any of your points. i've carefully read each of your posts. please clarify.

and yes. people getting THAT upset about it, its foolish. but then again, look at what YOU believe in. if i said christianity was a joke, you'd probably be mad. if i burned the belgian flag, you'd probably be mad.

for me, if you made a point of going on the net, burning a canadian flag and denouncing / making fun of my country in a completely serious fashion (because i can take a joke and i enjoy satire) then i'd be pretty angry too.

maybe not angry enough to come to your country and attack you, but hell... think of the people you know, think about how angry they get about stuff... this is the world where if you look at someones girl wrong you're going to get something smashed over your head; if you insult someones religion, and they have a short fuse, then they're going to flip out like a lunatic. there will always be a certain percentage of the population that's prone to rage and ridiculous stuff regardless of their background. combine it with an unfamiliar religion and government? no wonder these guys seem completely batshit insane to us.
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Forboding Angel
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Re: Curious

Post by Forboding Angel »

KaiserJ wrote:
Since when has Christianity ever been a problem? I mean true Christianity. Not some mental nut who does something stupid and calls himself a Christian.
throughout history and since the conception of the religions christians have waged wars, conducted wholesale slaughters and ethnic cleansing, this is nothing new

to nail down a few, the slaughter of the catharists, the aggressive colonization of the americas, the crusades to the middle east... what about ireland? that's nice and close to home

what percentage of these fights were legit, what percentage of them were caused by nutcases? we will probably never know, just as a lot of these conflicts (just like the ones we face today with radical muslims) are motivated partly for religious and partly for political and economic reasons.

thankfully due to the separation of church and state in the westernized christian world, most of the wars we're involved in are purely for political and economic reasons (hooray?) but it would be folly to assume that this was always the case
The majority of that was catholicism. Catholicism has a very long and a very bloody history. People always confuse protestant christianity with catholicism when in truth they are light years apart.

Christianity has been the citation of some bloody occurances as well, however, as anyone with half a brain knows, none of those events were carried out by true christians. Back then, the church was power, leading to a very corrupt state, hence why the US has separation of powers.
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Satirik
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Re: Curious

Post by Satirik »

Forboding Angel wrote: hence why the US has separation of powers.
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Raghna
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Re: Curious

Post by Raghna »

KaiserJ wrote:i dont understand how i've misinterpreted or misread any of your points. i've carefully read each of your posts. please clarify.
...
if i said christianity was a joke, you'd probably be mad.
see bellow
Raghna wrote:and I of all people know how stupid Christianity is.
Of course, I understand they're being angry and all, and if I'd be born in that country and indoctrinated with such thoughts, I would probably be too, but we can't give in to them, just like a parent can't give in to his child crying because it wants that toy he saw on television.
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KaiserJ
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Re: Curious

Post by KaiserJ »

true christians
exactly how is a "true christian" defined then?

not in terms of "im a christian and i feel x" but in terms of a general view of "all christians are like x"

hard to define? impossible to define? of course it is, because there's so much variation within the religion that it defies categorization for the most part. the only thing i can find as a common thread between different forms of christianity would be "live your life according to how you interpret the rules set in the bible" because i can't see any other similarities.

but then, of course, we can just make a blanket statement about all muslims right? because they are all evil terrorists and have no variation within the interpretation of their religious texts. /sarcasm

muslim terrorists generally come from countries with unified religion and state (or at least countries where religion plays a massive part in the affairs of the state) much like christianity prior to the aforementioned separation.
however, as anyone with half a brain knows
this is quite possibly the worst justification for a serious argument i've ever seen
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KaiserJ
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Re: Curious

Post by KaiserJ »

Of course, I understand they're being angry and all, and if I'd be born in that country and indoctrinated with such thoughts, I would probably be too
well of course
but we can't give in to them, just like a parent can't give in to his child crying because it wants that toy he saw on television.
but are you 100% sure that your opinion is right? would you even know if you had been indoctrinated? all of your opinions and ideas (as with everyone) is a culmination of all of your experiences and knowledge you've gleaned throughout your lifetime. what you know is -right- to you, because it's what you're used to and what you understand.

i have my own opinions and ideas, built in the same way through my own experiences. just because my opinion differs from yours (which, im not really sure how it does, because im apparently having trouble getting the point you're trying to convey to me via these posts)

the whole point of a debate or discussion is to examine both sides of a conflict or argument. if you already feel one side is "right" and have a set idea about the other, your mind is closed and in that manner are in the same boat with the muslim terrorists... their way is the RIGHT way to them, any other viewpoints be damned...

closemindedness is the common thread that binds your set of thinking with their set of thinking, just as obeying and interpreting the bible binds all of christianity together. if both sides were able to empathize more and at least examine the standpoint of the other, than we wouldn't even be having this debate to begin with
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Jazcash
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Re: Curious

Post by Jazcash »

Forboding Angel wrote: The majority of that was catholicism. Catholicism has a very long and a very bloody history. People always confuse protestant christianity with catholicism when in truth they are light years apart.

Christianity has been the citation of some bloody occurances as well, however, as anyone with half a brain knows, none of those events were carried out by true christians. Back then, the church was power, leading to a very corrupt state, hence why the US has separation of powers.
This.
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Peet
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Re: Curious

Post by Peet »

Forboding Angel wrote:the US has separation of powers.
How can you accuse a country whose motto is "In God we trust" to have full separation of church and state?
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KaiserJ
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Re: Curious

Post by KaiserJ »

why can't you guys see the similarities here?

we can point most of that "bad christian" stuff at catholicism.

we can point all of the "bad muslim" stuff at qutbism

in no way am i categorizing christians as monsters due to the acts of catholics in the past; and i don't feel that muslims should get the same treatment due to groups of extremists that feel they represent the religion as a whole.

you guys all know tons about christianity, what about reading up on the other side of the coin, and not just about the nutjobs but the people who live day to day and are "good muslims" just as you are "good christians"
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Forboding Angel
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Re: Curious

Post by Forboding Angel »

Peet wrote:
Forboding Angel wrote:the US has separation of powers.
How can you accuse a country whose motto is "In God we trust" to have full separation of church and state?
That statement is bs and you know it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation ... ted_States

Does any church run the government? Does congress or the president take orders from the church? Does the government tell the people which religions are acceptable and which ones are not. Does the government ostracize those who are athiests or believe in less popular religions? Does the government control religion in the US in any way shape or form or vice versa?

The answer to all of the above is no, hence, separation of Church and State.
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Peet
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Re: Curious

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Otherside
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Re: Curious

Post by Otherside »

All religions should just be abolished tbh. I know its a bit late now but really the majority of the problems the world has now in terms of wars etc are mainly due to differences based on religion (also most wars in the past)

I hate all religions some more so than others because of there retardation.

Islam is full of crazy fanatics who get touchy over the littlest things and think its ok to overreact to the tiniest thing like a cartoon. There prophet is a pedophile who got with a 7 year old and they promise virgins after death if they become martyrs by suicide bombing. Man this religion sucks. Also they still treat women like pieces of meat and objects.

Christianity is lolsome the Pope has to spend most of his time covering up allegations of child abuse from sex starved priests. And when the leader of you religion thinks one of the biggest problems in the world is gay marriage its like lolwhat you seriously follow this religion. Not as extreme or as bad as Islam but still retarded and worrying that in the western world people still believe these ancient fairy tales.

Judaism is lulsy not so much in the limelight atm. But i dont get why doing fuck all on the sabbath makes you a better person. This religion pisses me off cos of all the rules it has and how in general they feel they are better than everyone else and use the holocaust as a guilt trip.

Scientology : LOL not even worth speaking about the religion speaks for itself.

CBA to mention anymore.

But all religion sucks and the world would be a better place without them. Religion is outdated and should get with the times the only problem is if they did so most of there rules would be abolished and all of there stories would be proven false so every1 would be athiest. Sigh the world would be a much better place.

Religion is also for people who cant think for themselves.
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KaiserJ
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Re: Curious

Post by KaiserJ »

IMO you can never truly separate church and state; as long as both exist, they will always influence eachother, even to a tiny degree

forb : correct in that the USA has done well in terms of promoting freedom of religion from the government as a whole and allowing for people to worship however they like and believe whatever they want

peet : correct in the sense that government officials can be religious, and that their religion can influence their decisions as a leader, and also gain them popularity among voters due to their religious standpoint
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Peet
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Re: Curious

Post by Peet »

Otherside wrote:the majority of the problems the world has now in terms of wars etc are mainly due to differences based on religion (also most wars in the past)
I think people would be perfectly happy to find other excuses to eradicate eachother. Terrible forum argumentation could be a good one.
Otherside wrote:Islam is full of crazy fanatics
Otherside wrote:Christianity is lolsome the Pope has to spend most of his time covering up allegations of child abuse from sex starved priests.
Otherside wrote:in general they feel they are better than everyone else and use the holocaust as a guilt trip.
You are really fond of stereotypes and absurd generalizations. The average muslim is not going to blow himself up in a crowded area, the average catholic is not going to touch little boys, and jews are not arrogant guiltmongers. You are a victim of modern alarmism and narrowmindedness.


Well put kaiser.
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