Curious

Curious

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Regret
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Curious

Post by Regret » 20 May 2010, 13:09

Now let's have a civil debate about this particular thought.
Gota wrote:If you have the right to trash their religion they have the right to punch you in the face.
At what point does it become alright to respond with violence when insulted by words/pictures?

Someone insults me, I beat the shit out of him, I end up in prison.

Someone insults my belief ... ?
Last edited by Regret on 21 May 2010, 01:27, edited 1 time in total.
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forest_devil
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Re: Curious

Post by forest_devil » 20 May 2010, 13:14

as far as i see it if someone has the right to insult you then you have the right to insult them back.

but just because ytou have thatright does not make it right to do it.
someone insults me i either a) ignore them or b) explain to them that they are wrong.

but at no point do you have a right to inflict pain to someone else just because of some pathetic words. ever.
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zwzsg
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Re: Curious

Post by zwzsg » 20 May 2010, 13:41

It depends under what set of laws you're operating. Please refer to your local legal codex.
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KDR_11k
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Re: Curious

Post by KDR_11k » 20 May 2010, 14:15

I believe a minor assault (e.g. punching someone once) can have a lower penalty if the victim was clearly insulting the attacker but serious assault (keeping the attack up) doesn't get excuses like that.
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zwzsg
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Re: Curious

Post by zwzsg » 20 May 2010, 14:33

Now they always trying to attack us.
Uh? It's the US that's always attacking muslim countries!
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momfreeek
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Re: Curious

Post by momfreeek » 20 May 2010, 15:00

Sausage wrote:stupid primitive religion
protestants/catholics blow each other in the name of religion too. judaism/christianity/islam all share the same roots.. they are not so different either. Its not like aggression towards other faiths is a property of islam that the others don't share.


don't pretend its just one religion thats the problem
Last edited by momfreeek on 20 May 2010, 15:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Gota
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Re: Curious

Post by Gota » 20 May 2010, 15:01

Sausage wrote:
Should just nuke em all.
I agree with what gota said. Stupid muslims and their primitive ways, dont know how to behave in our advanced society, they come here trying to get us to follow their stupid primitive religion and cry when we lol at them. Now they always trying to attack us.

Nukez would deal with these pest
I meant nuke the nordic countries..
Tired of hearing everyone there moaning about free speech...just some cartoon who cares if u cant draw muhhamed.

If we leave the official laws aside for a sec....who says words cant cause more harm than physical attacks?
Metal attacks like cursing and humiliating verbally can also be called painful.

P.S.
My post in that thread was a joke an i was just writing what some Europeans have been saying to me.

another thing.
If you are a true believer than no secular law can stop you if it defies the law of god...If you believe in god truly,how can you not fight secular laws like free speech that allow ridiculing your prophet or whoever you believe in ...
True Muslims/Christians/Jews cant live under democracy period
Last edited by Gota on 20 May 2010, 15:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Pxtl
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Re: Curious

Post by Pxtl » 20 May 2010, 15:06

zwzsg wrote:
Now they always trying to attack us.
Uh? It's the US that's always attacking muslim countries!
Yeah, it's kind of hard to argue this point when, for example, the USA invaded Iraq twice and Iraq has attacked the USA... well, never. Not to say that Saddam wasn't a nasty piece of work, and that the radical Muslim countries aren't regressive hellholes, but the USA has a long, storied, sordid history of punching the hornet's nest.

If it weren't for American cold-war realpolitik, there might not have ever been a Taliban, an Iranian theocracy, and a Saddam Hussein. All three of those were direct results of American actions (although in the case of the Taliban, they were supported to counter even-nastier Soviet actions).

Which isn't to say the issue is black and white - fundamentalist, violent, oppressive forms of Islam are a cancer upon the world. But in far too many cases, their rise to power was brought as a side effect of Cold War chess games. When people live in a world of constant strife, populist fascists rise to power - Hitler did it in Germany, Pol Pot did it in Cambodia, and a million little mullahs do it in the Middle East. The poor, ground-down populace will follow whoever can bring order out of chaos and who can give them a target for their revenge.
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Gota
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Re: Curious

Post by Gota » 20 May 2010, 15:11

Pxtl wrote:
zwzsg wrote:
Now they always trying to attack us.
Uh? It's the US that's always attacking muslim countries!
Yeah, it's kind of hard to argue this point when, for example, the USA invaded Iraq twice and Iraq has attacked the USA... well, never. Not to say that Saddam wasn't a nasty piece of work, and that the radical Muslim countries aren't regressive hellholes, but the USA has a long, storied, sordid history of punching the hornet's nest.

If it weren't for American cold-war realpolitik, there might not have ever been a Taliban, an Iranian theocracy, and a Saddam Hussein. All three of those were direct results of American actions (although in the case of the Taliban, they were supported to counter even-nastier Soviet actions).

Which isn't to say the issue is black and white - fundamentalist, violent, oppressive forms of Islam are a cancer upon the world. But in far too many cases, their rise to power was brought as a side effect of Cold War chess games. When people live in a world of constant strife, populist fascists rise to power - Hitler did it in Germany, Pol Pot did it in Cambodia, and a million little mullahs do it in the Middle East. The poor, ground-down populace will follow whoever can bring order out of chaos and who can give them a target for their revenge.
At least you can shout at the US...if it was russia or china you'd just
one day drink some plutonium with your tea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_ ... Litvinenko

And looking at history democaracy and freedom were always spread with rifles and buckets of blood.
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Jazcash
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Re: Curious

Post by Jazcash » 20 May 2010, 15:36

momfreeek wrote:
Sausage wrote:stupid primitive religion
protestants/catholics blow each other in the name of religion too. judaism/christianity/islam all share the same roots.. they are not so different either. Its not like aggression towards other faiths is a property of islam that the others don't share.


don't pretend its just one religion thats the problem
Since when has Christianity ever been a problem? I mean true Christianity. Not some mental nut who does something stupid and calls himself a Christian.


And as for Words being just as "painful" as actual violence, bullshit. Freedom of speech is one thing but freedom of doing whatever the hell you want doesn't fall under that law.
People verbally attack Christianity all the time and most typical people thing that's fine because the Christians don't complain. But as soon as Islam is offended, they start blowing people up and the verbal offenders shut up because they don't want to die.

Islam is a weak religion because it can't cope with verbal offence. If it's wrong to disrespect Islam, it's wrong to disrespect any religion. I myself think disrespect of religion is wrong but I'm all for free speech and trying to stop people verbally abusing at all is preposterous and would be moronic to prevent with law.
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zwzsg
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Re: Curious

Post by zwzsg » 20 May 2010, 15:46

Since when has Christianity ever been a problem?
From the start. Don't you recall the christ was judged and condemned for being troublesome?
I mean true Christianity. Not some mental nut who does something stupid and calls himself a Christian.
But it's true christians who are the problematic nuts! Half-Christian and moderate christians are much more open and tolerant, so they don't create that many issues.
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Pxtl
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Re: Curious

Post by Pxtl » 20 May 2010, 16:15

@ Gota

While freedom is often spread with a gun... yeah, that's where dictatorships come from too. And cold-war USA wasn't really picky on the subject as long as the new government wasn't Red. Iran is a good example of that - Khomeni came into power as a backlash against an American-backed dictator, the Shah. Before that? Democracy... oil-nationalizing democracy.

Meanwhile, see Ghandi, Martin Luther King, and Nelson Mandela.
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Jazcash
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Re: Curious

Post by Jazcash » 20 May 2010, 16:22

zwzsg wrote:
Since when has Christianity ever been a problem?
From the start. Don't you recall the christ was judged and condemned for being troublesome?

You obviously haven't read it. It states that pilot found no fault in him. So, what exactly did he do which you find so wrong? He's Jesus for Christ's sake!
I mean true Christianity. Not some mental nut who does something stupid and calls himself a Christian.
But it's true christians who are the problematic nuts! Half-Christian and moderate christians are much more open and tolerant, so they don't create that many issues.
Explain.
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zwzsg
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Re: Curious

Post by zwzsg » 20 May 2010, 16:47

Jesus was condemmned to death for Blasphemy! :wink:

But also, for brewing trouble and inciting riots. And unlike Guantanamo's prisoners, Jesus was given a fair trial, and by his own people. The law is the law, he should have known better.
Last edited by zwzsg on 20 May 2010, 16:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Raghna
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Re: Curious

Post by Raghna » 20 May 2010, 16:48

So I try to show my contribution to freedom of speech and in exchange you lock my thread before I can even defend myself?
Isn't that somehow ironic?

I'm European and I'm against the war in Iraq etc...

But Gota, tell me, since when does drawing a cartoon deserve to get you killed? This action of Everybody Draw Muhammad Day! is not racist or against Islam or any religion whatsoever. We're not trying to oppress the Islam religion. If Muslims don't want to see Muhammad pictured, then I kindly suggest them to move out of our countries.

Honestly, Muslims come to our countries because they want all the benefits our modern society can offer them, and I can't blame them for that, but when it comes to adapting they show no will to do so whatsoever. If things are so bad here, then why did they come in the first place?

Imho: it's either shape up, or ship out.

EDIT: ty Regret for posting this
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Jazcash
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Re: Curious

Post by Jazcash » 20 May 2010, 17:02

zwzsg wrote:Jesus was condemmned to death for Blasphemy! :wink:
Blasphemy means ridiculing God. He is God, so yeah. If you actually read it then you'd understand it was the corrupt High priests who were condemning him.
zwzsg wrote: But also, for brewing trouble and inciting riots..
Nowhere is that written in the Bible...
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zwzsg
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Re: Curious

Post by zwzsg » 20 May 2010, 17:21

Jazcash wrote:Blasphemy means ridiculing God. He is God, so yeah. If you actually read it then you'd understand it was the corrupt High priests who were condemning him.
No, he was man. Making himself worshipped as a god is called idolatry, and the Bible itself says that is punishable by death. If the Bible says Jesus Christ is guilty, then it is just like as if God says Jesus Christ is guilty, for the Bible is nothing but the words of God. Who are you to contest the law of God?


Jazcash wrote:Nowhere is that written in the Bible...
Looks like your bible edition is missing the four gospels.
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TradeMark
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Re: Curious

Post by TradeMark » 20 May 2010, 17:26

forest_devil wrote:as far as i see it if someone has the right to insult you then you have the right to insult them back.
thats childish... just shut up if someone insults you, its the best.. dont feed the trolls.
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zwzsg
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Re: Curious

Post by zwzsg » 20 May 2010, 17:29

I don't know any country where libel isn't a legal offense.
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Jazcash
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Re: Curious

Post by Jazcash » 20 May 2010, 17:32

zwzsg wrote:If the Bible says Jesus Christ is guilty, then it is just like as if God says Jesus Christ is guilty.
It doesn't so coolstorybro.

Image
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