Fallout 3 - Page 3

Fallout 3

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Erom
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Re: Fallout 3

Post by Erom »

...

Until this thread I had no idea Bioshock was at any way related to the old System Shock games.
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Regret
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Re: Fallout 3

Post by Regret »

Erom wrote:...

Until this thread I had no idea Bioshock was at any way related to the old System Shock games.
Well it did always have "shock" in the name.
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ZellSF
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Re: Fallout 3

Post by ZellSF »

Erom wrote:...

Until this thread I had no idea Bioshock was at any way related to the old System Shock games.
It isn't. Certain people just like to claim it is. If we allow this to occur then it won't be long before people will claim Deus Ex: Invisible War was related to Deus Ex.
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smoth
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Re: Fallout 3

Post by smoth »

el idiot they removed some and added others.
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El Idiot
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Re: Fallout 3

Post by El Idiot »

Wait... didn't I just say that Smoth?
They cut and paste, mix and match, drop and add some things that should all be standard by now.

Saw a few leaks over at No Mutants Allowed. Harold is back. Looking greener than ever.
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smoth
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Re: Fallout 3

Post by smoth »

I am pretty sure nothing has VACS.
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SwiftSpear
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Re: Fallout 3

Post by SwiftSpear »

smoth wrote:I am pretty sure nothing has VACS.
IMO VACS is weak. It makes perfectly brilliant sense in a turnbased game... but it really doesn't have the same connotations for a first person shooter. I prefer bullet time, paired with a spiffy physics engine preferably. The effect is the same, but it doesn't cause the game to play for me.
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smoth
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Re: Fallout 3

Post by smoth »

none of us have played it yet swift, I hold my opinion until I play it.
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Sleksa
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Re: Fallout 3

Post by Sleksa »

smoth wrote:none of us have played it yet swift, I hold my opinion until I play it.
like you've done with starcraft II ? :wink:
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SwiftSpear
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Re: Fallout 3

Post by SwiftSpear »

Sleksa wrote:
smoth wrote:none of us have played it yet swift, I hold my opinion until I play it.
like you've done with starcraft II ? :wink:
There's a difference between questioning weather a feature in a game will be good, and questioning weather a game you know is going to be good, is being profiteered off of by the company that's making it. Smoth never said starcraft 2 is not going to be a good game, he disagree's with the way blizzard is handling the economics of making the game, not with thier specific design decisions.
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Machiosabre
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Re: Fallout 3

Post by Machiosabre »

close enough.
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smoth
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Re: Fallout 3

Post by smoth »

game mechanics and business strategy are not the same. I think sleksa is just looking for something to argue about swift.
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Peace
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Re: Fallout 3

Post by Peace »

I like the VACS system in Fallout 3. Before I discovered how to use it I was like "zzzz....just another shooter" but when I started using it it really added a new dimension to the game.
I don't know if any of you know how it looks like but the game pauses and zooms in on the enemy you pick, you get a hitscan with percentage ("chance") of hitting each bodypart. When you fire it's this sort of slowmo with gory effects when you hit :mrgreen: Pretty cool feature imo. Ofc you could play without it but I doubt you'd get very far as you would waste all your ammo.

Haven't been able to play spring or F3 now for more than a week now though, moving to my new awesome flat 8)
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El Idiot
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Re: Fallout 3

Post by El Idiot »

The VATs system is optional if I remember reading correctly, and I was perfectly capable of aiming before it. I'll probably play without it. That's about all Fallout 3 has going for it when it comes to innovation, optional turn based combat and assisted aiming, which I have to agree with Swift, that it is very weak.
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smoth
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Re: Fallout 3

Post by smoth »

Innovative does not always equal better. I don't believe that is what is needed for a good game, I think a good mix of classic, new and popular elements makes a good game. I don't know man. What are you searching for? Are you looking for people to agree with you and hate it because it cannot compete with your "retro" memory? ARe you looking for are reason to love it? Looking for more reasons to hate it or looking to bitch?

No matter how great it will never be able to compete with a memory.
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El Idiot
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Re: Fallout 3

Post by El Idiot »

What am I looking for? Hell if I know. I originally fell in with the line of voters, but then you put me on the defensive explaining myself.

Innovative is bonus points simply for being the first. If a 5/10 is average (though people consider 7/10 to be), then I think Fallout 3 should get a 5/10 score. I'll play it for Fallout in 3D. I think I'm looking for some innovative things to stick in the industry. Like the shift from 2D to 3D. I'm treated to something exceptional, like 3D, and so I expect it again.
The wall hugging system in Gears, though buggy (and "innovative" when it wasn't the first), I figured would be showing up in nearly every shooter after it. Mass Effect did much better with it, very smooth and functional. I want and expect something similar from shooters now.
Fallout had a great atmosphere, good dialog, and dealing with problems had some difficult choices with little black or white. I expect at least this of Fallout 3, but I know Bethesda generally falls flat on the last two, and I don't know how well they can replicate the first. I'm certain something that makes Fallout "Fallout" will be missing from it. It's not so much the memory as it is the expectations.

Memories can be beat. Spring wins over my memory of TA. Even if Spring was still a fixed camera overhead, the better controls in Spring wins out. If the Spring project spawned another, I'd expect it to have dragable area commands and such. If not, I wouldn't like it. Spring improved on what was already there in TA.
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SwiftSpear
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Re: Fallout 3

Post by SwiftSpear »

El Idiot wrote:What am I looking for? Hell if I know. I originally fell in with the line of voters, but then you put me on the defensive explaining myself.

Innovative is bonus points simply for being the first. If a 5/10 is average (though people consider 7/10 to be), then I think Fallout 3 should get a 5/10 score. I'll play it for Fallout in 3D. I think I'm looking for some innovative things to stick in the industry. Like the shift from 2D to 3D. I'm treated to something exceptional, like 3D, and so I expect it again.
The wall hugging system in Gears, though buggy (and "innovative" when it wasn't the first), I figured would be showing up in nearly every shooter after it. Mass Effect did much better with it, very smooth and functional. I want and expect something similar from shooters now.
Fallout had a great atmosphere, good dialog, and dealing with problems had some difficult choices with little black or white. I expect at least this of Fallout 3, but I know Bethesda generally falls flat on the last two, and I don't know how well they can replicate the first. I'm certain something that makes Fallout "Fallout" will be missing from it. It's not so much the memory as it is the expectations.

Memories can be beat. Spring wins over my memory of TA. Even if Spring was still a fixed camera overhead, the better controls in Spring wins out. If the Spring project spawned another, I'd expect it to have dragable area commands and such. If not, I wouldn't like it. Spring improved on what was already there in TA.
I'd agree with that. There are games that wall hugging doesn't belong in, TF2 for example, but for tactical shooters you are letting the player down by not having the feature.

On VACS: In my opinion, it's weak because it's a feature of a 2D isometric turn based game hackwrenched into a 3D shooter. Shooters have better ways of allowing the player to determine weather he hits an arm, leg, head, whatever, it's called "aim". Bullettime would be more appropriate, and effectively produce the same result. I guess that doesn't really apply to the console market where aiming is something only addicts can actually pull off with any reliability, but I think VACS is going to feel like a more of a curse than a blessing to most PC gamers. It's going to create a really weird dichotomy where players will have a hard time deciding weather to put experience points into firearms and action points based skills, because how well you move, and how well you shoot, if you don't use vacs, is far more reliant on the skill of the player than it is on your statistics. Do I put skill points into the abilities that make the game play for me, or do I put them into abilities that allow me personally more access to game features and interesting events?
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smoth
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Re: Fallout 3

Post by smoth »

Spring is not just TA the fact that you are only interested in something that merely augments TA shows that you still only wanted TA.

Fallout 3 isn't going to be fallout1/2 it just isn't. You cannot expect it to be, they took it a very different direction just like fallout tactics which reminded me of Xcom or syndicate wars or crusader.

That is what I am saying, you want the key feature to be a core game just upgraded. That isn't what the market wants though, people like to say that daggerfall was better than morrowind. I played daggerfall, if you could call that playing. Shit was so broken it failed hard, morrowwind was better but still stupid and oblivion was better for the new combat system and failed in other areas.

I do not think we need to continually relive the same shit over and over. It sucks and I applaud the industry for getting the nuts to do different things. even though people largely reject it for not being "as good" as the old game.

Things like wallhuging only work in 3rd person shooters. I can promise you that shit would have sucked in farcry and cod4. Having just beaten gears, the 3rd person camera is problematic esp when most of the fast enemies get right up under your min angle. so a lot of the time you're blind firing/swinging when those little fuckers are killing you causing much aggravation.

I am not trying to put you on the defensive. Right now the conversation seems unfocused I want to know which direction you want to take it in.

Have you played fallout 3? What is your problem with it, besides all the fucking and aids taken out?
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SwiftSpear
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Re: Fallout 3

Post by SwiftSpear »

smoth wrote:Things like wallhuging only work in 3rd person shooters. I can promise you that shit would have sucked in farcry and cod4. Having just beaten gears, the 3rd person camera is problematic esp when most of the fast enemies get right up under your min angle. so a lot of the time you're blind firing/swinging when those little fuckers are killing you causing much aggravation.
Rainbow Vegas, for all it's failings, proves that wallhugging can still work in a primarily first person game. You only need the third person to establish personal positioning for short periods of time as you actually press against the wall and are not targeting enemies.

COD would have improved with the inclusion of wall hugging IMO, especially the multiplayer component.

In terms of direction. I'm not arguing that fallout should stay a strict isometric turnbased game, I'm not even promoting that. I just think VACS, the way it seems to be handled anyways, isn't a very good feature for a first person shooter. That kind of thing lends itself more to a tactical squad combat simulator or something, where it would be too much work to control the micromovement of many characters simultaneously, and of course any tactical turn based game. In my opinion, first person shooters should not take control away from the players.

I'm really excited about Fallout 3 still though... I think they are doing alot of cool things in terms of building a world, and building a story... Like I say, I'm hoping that Fallout 3 will be a strong and entertaining rehashing of the ground that STALKER has already tread, and proved can be alot of fun. I love features like collecting and setting up equipment for my FPS character in a long and epic story line... STALKER was a brilliant game, and any game that is in the same genre I consider a must try. Even so, STALKER did so many things wrong from an FPS perspective, I'm hoping that the fallout team can learn from their mistakes.
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smoth
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Re: Fallout 3

Post by smoth »

I figured fallouts' vacs was added because most rpgers are not twitch gamers.
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